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Featured To my Jewish friends on this forum...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ashoka, Nov 20, 2022.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    LOL... no argument here. What I do know is that they are real good at twisting scriptures too. :D
     
  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    For example?
     
  3. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    I guess you proved my point?

    1) I was an outsider until 28. Are you saying I wasn't open minded? Wasn't objective?
    2) Do you assume that somehow a believe is not objective but an outsider is because somehow he is better?
    3) Are you the judge of what are failed prophesies at the expense of what believers interpret the prophecies to mean?
    4) Is it you are more of a literalist?
    5) The fact that you say "skeptic" could be a show that one isn't open-minded. Maybe could be but potentially not because a skeptic can be sayinge, "You have failed prophecies, IYO, and you won't convince me otherwise"... quite close-minded IMV.

    So, in reality, you just validated my position. :)

    But I'm OK with it. :)
     
  4. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    God is a genocidal maniac.
     
  5. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

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    I don't see that as twisting Scripture, personally.

    That's reading Scripture, then applying modern-day views and critical thinking.
     
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  6. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    It would be like us saying that the Allied Forces were war-mongering nations when they attacked German forces. Seems like a twisting to me and a lack of critical thinking. Now... "modern-day anti-Christian God view?" yes.. .that would nail it. :)
     
  7. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    It also seems to point out that according to the gospel authors jesus did not want to be undrestood. I guess, according to the gospel authors, the point was for people to walk away confused or not having an idea what jesus was even talking about.
     
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  8. DNB

    DNB Christian

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    Jesus, the twelve Apostles, Paul, and all the early Church members were devout Jews, to which Jesus insisted that they should receive the Gospel exclusively - how in the world are Christians not qualified to interpret the TaNaKh?
     
  9. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    In what way do you specifically believe Jesus failed to demonstrate He is the Messiah? I am just curious and sincerely interested in your thoughts.
     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Well let's look at what the messiah is supposed to due, which is basically reign during the idyllic messianice era. He is to usher in an era of worldwide peace (Jesus didn't). He will bring all the Jews back to the Land of Israel (Jesus didn't). He will rule from Jerusalem (Jesus didn't). Is this making sense to you?
     
  11. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    I think it was more a case of Jesus being aware that the language of the spirit is meaningless to those who have closed themselves off to spiritual matters.
     
  12. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    What was done to Leviticus?
    The KJV has errors and the good thing is that many errors have been fixed in the KJV. This site gives some reason for those errors.
    King James Bible Errors
    Over the years the study of texts has revealed errors which have entered the Bible and which have not been pointed out and in many instances eliminated. But even in modern translations there are still errors it seems.
    There are also differences in Jewish translations into other languages of course so your concentration on the KJV seems unwarranted. It is just another translation with errors like other translations.

    This ex cold case cop says that the differences (or many of them at least) indicate witness reports which vary between witnesses.
    Why Differences Between the Gospels Demonstrate Their Reliability (Video) | Cold Case Christianity
    There are of course many things that a lot of people call contradictions but which are not and are just the story from a different perspective and leaving out or adding what other versions have or have not included. The story of Jesus birth and early years can be harmonised along with other things in the gospels that look like contradictions to some.
    I think the different versions of the death of Judas also can be harmonised into one story.
    From the pov of a believer the genealogies also can be explained.

    The gospels that were not accepted were the ones written later,,,,,,,,,,,, in the 2nd century, the ones with influences of other religions eg gnosticism.
    The synoptic gospels we have were written before 70AD going by the evidence. It is only John's gospel that was written late and from a different perspective, with information that the others did not include or have.
    The authors of the gospels we have can be worked out from the internal evidence and Church tradition. It appears to be the false gospels, written late, that are not anonymous and I would say, that is a good way of identifying them as forgeries that the authors wanted to be accepted as real by adding their names.
    What you are saying is sort of the opposite to the true history as far as I can see and you are accusing the early church of lies about Jesus from the beginning. What history books do you read that teach you these things?
     
  13. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    There was no belief in a resurrection to eternal life for Jesus.
     
  14. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    No, you know I don't read Hebrew.

    Are you saying that you want me to show where the Messiah is said to be killed and resurrected in the Tanach?

    The Gospel of Matthew is said to have been written in Hebrew or Aramaic originally but the text is lost if it existed.

    Are you saying that the spread of the gospel message from Jerusalem to the world did not happen as written in the Acts of the Apostles?
    If so, why do you think that?
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    And even if not, it is not for me really annoying. It is more like amusing. Good thing about it is that it opens a chance to correct possible wrong ideas.
     
  16. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I think you have done all the leg work already and have built your web and are waiting for a Christian to step into it.
    I have already heard from some Jews what they say about various text and it sounds reasonable to me at times even if different to the Christian translations but a Christian scholar could do the same with this ignorant Christian.
    I do know that the Masoretic text is the basis for Jewish and Christian translations of the Hebrew scriptures but the Christians also use other older texts where they think it might be appropriate and no doubt where these agree with what is written in the New Testament. These would include the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint since it seems to have been the scriptures in common usage in Jesus day.
    I know Jews have their reasons for their translations but Christian scholars also have reasons.
    Thanks anyway. You can go and be satisfied that what you thought would happen actually happened.
    But you never know, one day I might be in the mood and accept your offer, not that I think I could teach you anything.
     
  17. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    No I cannot prove it but I hear it is unreasonable from a phychological perspective to say that so many followers of Jesus experiences the resurrected Jesus and heard Him speak and say Him ascend etc.
    Yet the Hebrew prophecies from what I see, do point to Jesus being the only possible candidate for the Messiah, and other having come too late. And of course I see Jesus having fulfilled prophecies with His dying and rising. But all this is just silly talk for a Jew who has learned that these things in the Hebrew scriptures have to mean something else.
     
  18. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Jesus most certainly did want his spiritual teachings to be understood by the ear of the spirit.
     
  19. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Both ways.

    Though i have found some are happy to live with wrong ideas rather than upset their faith
     
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  20. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    If you say so.
     
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