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Featured To disprove evolution...

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Xavier Graham, Apr 20, 2022.

  1. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating! Thank you!
     
  2. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Um, okay... Octopi, intelligent; fruit flies, unintelligent.

    Well, I think that the videos that I posted explained, that however: The animal that can figure things out better has the higher intelligence, and the animal that can't figure things out well as other animals have the lower intelligence.
     
  3. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    A human says I'm a human. Knowingly says I choose to argue.

    A human by human observation knows without Argument I'm not a chimp or ape. Their sex life continuance observed is baby chimp or baby ape

    I own an ego. I claim animals behaviour exact. I observe it. Aren't acting like humans. They act like chimps.

    You know a human thinking only is storytelling. You quantified it exact it's my belief a theory.

    Sex is life continuance making the parents healthiest coldest bio protected body it's healthy baby life.

    Science by law is observation first only as legal. A theory a story isn't legal.

    Was why a legal requirement was imposed. As man's history organised group a status behaviour...just human had lied.

    As science.
    God in science was first position coldest.

    Waters God is ice. Our saviour in life. Coldest position.

    As gases above us burn. What the meaning of God in human science meant as a human only teaching.
     
    #143 rational experiences, Jun 9, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2022
  4. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so the ability to figure things out is the way to measure intelligence.

    So if we give two individuals a test, the one that figures it out first is more intelligent than the other. Would you agree?
     
  5. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Not if it's only limited to one test since some humans and certain animals might specialize in only certain motor skills and dexterity, while other animals and individuals may not. However, multiple tests would reveal which animal or human is more intelligent.
     
  6. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    You can’t use the same test on 2 completely different animals, like the fruit flies and octopus you had mentioned.
     
  7. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Okay, let's say I wanted to compare the intelligence of a jumping spider and an octopus to find out which is more intelligent. Would you care to suggest a few different tests I might use to find the answer?
     
  8. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    But wouldn't that within itself prove that since one animal isn't even qualified to be tested in a certain way, then that animal doesn't even have the have the intelligence it be tested that way?
     
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  9. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Interesting question. However, thank goodness that I am on the internet. :D

    But I did find an article that I would at least like to post the link to since I haven't finished reading the entire article or the other articles that I found:

    click here: An IQ test for animals? | Science | AAAS
     
  10. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    No, David.

    You are misunderstanding what I am trying to say.

    If you want to carrying out experiments, then you must be able to perform exactly the same experiments on those 2 different animals.

    The problems are, you have chosen to use a flea and octopus as examples.

    One. You haven’t given us any description as to what experiment you want to use on them.

    Two. That won’t work because of their respective sizes. So unless you can replicate the same experiments themselves in 2 different sizes, you won’t have viable tests for them.

    Three. There are matters of natural habitats and environments they respectively live in. Octopus is a marine creature, flea isn’t. You cannot expect the flea, to do the experiment underwater, nor subject the octopus to do the experiment on dry land. Plus, creating the experiment to work both underwater and in terrestrial conditions would actually change the experiment; it is no longer the same experiments since the environmental conditions are different.

    Four, and lastly. When have you known fleas do things that octopus would do, or octopuses do things that’s flea would do. They are different animals with different lives, different behaviors, different habits. So how would your experiments on them would exhibit their intelligence?​

    Since you have given us no descriptions as to what these experiments or tests are, and in which environments you would subject them, I really don’t see how you can pull off the same experiments on two completely different animals.
     
  11. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a source where different kinds of animals were given these tests, and if so, which kind of animal did better?
     
  12. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I have always believed that the human existence is a mystery...and particularly how humans came to being.

    But since I was a kid, evolution has always made sense to me. And even after I watched Jurassic Park (this is a very serious reasoning, and it deals with a pretty underrated movie, philosophically speaking), that conviction grew stronger.
    What is the meaning of that movie? That nobody can play God and create some species out of nowhere and place it into an alien ecosystem (alien to them). Because disastrous things will happen. As they did in the movie.

    So I am aware that not even God played God. What is the purpose of creating dinosaurs and then having them extinct? That is absolutely pointless and meaningless.
    The answer is quite simple: it is evolution that produced dinosaurs, it is natural selection that led to new reptiles, to birds, to the mammals, and so on...God just allowed all this because it let nature be free, He gave free will even to Mother Nature.

    Because it is Freedom that produces balance in Nature. Not control.
     
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  13. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Okay, let's summarize things and end this part of the conversation between us. According to this article, there are 10 animals that have opposable thumbs:

    here is the link for the article quotation along with a second link that shows 23 animals with opposable thumbs:

    10 Animals With Opposable Thumbs (Most Common) - Wildlife Informer

    23 Animals With Opposable Thumbs (+Pictures) – AnimalTriangle

    And then there are racoons:

    here is the link for the article quotation: Key to a Raccoon’s Success: Opposable Thumbs? (skedaddlewildlife.com)

    And then there are mice and rodents:

    here is the link for the article quotation: Waukesha Wildlife Removal: Interesting Facts About Mice Paws (skedaddlewildlife.com)

    However, with the grasping tools that other animals have, no other animal seems to have the ability or the motivation to manipulate their environment as humans do. Humans have the intellect to build complex and sophisticated things, but animals don't. Also, animals have the unsavory behavior of urinating and defecating out in the open for everyone to see and/or whenever and wherever the urge strikes them. Plus, animals don't seem to mind the smell of their waste products along with other unpleasant odors. However, for the most part, human beings will go all out to get rid of odors in their environment and odors on themselves. Therefore, I would think that superior intelligence would have something to do with all that.
     
  14. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Good post, Estro Felino. And even though I don't particularly believe in the God portrayed in the Bible, I would say that the reasoning in your post is at odds with fundamentalist Christians' literal take of the Genesis creation story, and they will bend over backwards trying to reconcile the reality of dangerous and predatory animals in nature with their fairy tale interpretation of creation.
     
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  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    I think this:

    Animals and humans are very close, and animal passions are what give our abstractions moral relevance. You cannot hurt a rock, and you cannot do evil to a rock. It cares not, so in an abstract sense there is no evil if nobody cares -- if there are no animal passions. Therefore it is our animal nature which enables us to experience morality, but it is only human gifts which allow us if we choose to put morality above our own passions. We also can value the concept of morality and ponder whether people should care and whether there should be feelings. Neither an animal nor a rock nor a very smart computer can do that. They lack the context: the components of experience necessary.

     
  16. David Davidovich

    David Davidovich Active Member

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    Well, I'm glad that we finally got that settled. :)
     
  17. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    A human says from human using science technology before one theism by two.

    O circle pi.
    O circle Phi....says as man as his science of god.

    I converted all life on earth as a man.

    Hence now I identify in all life bodies what I had caused from my own biological human conversion.

    Yes he says I surely created new animals and new garden nature body on earth myself.

    Yet I don't own why it was natural and origin first.

    My machines proved I did it to everything. Why I try to relate I became an ape human. As I changed the origin monkey type myself. Just as a human in science.

    I had to prove I did it to biology.

    As life does change instantly as biology inside a natural heavens.

    Why men of science won't disbelieve theories just as a humans conscious thesis acted out in every circumstance by just a human. All choices. All purposes a human and not a God.
     
  18. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
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    We lack the components of expertise necessary to know that is true. I will grant you the rock, but we don't know how philosophical a chimp can get. Nor an octopus.
     
  19. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Ever notice that no one ever replies to your posts? It's because we can't understand them.
     
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