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Featured To Christians - The Pope says there's no hell, what do you think?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Deidre, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The land of "Dixie" (Johnny Reb's land) didn't exist at the beginning of creation. In the "beginning", there was only light and darkness.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I have known some 7-year-olds who seem to have more morals and intelligence than some adults that I know.

    What are you talking about?

    Maybe it's best to mind your own business.

    BTW, I noticed that you didn't mention the fact that the Bible verse I quoted goes against what you claimed in regards to the forgiveness of sin, so it seems that you really can't seem to be willing to admit you were wrong. By chance, are you taking lessons from Trump?

    Anyhow, ...
     
  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    :rolleyes:
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    As Peter is the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who doesn't feed the sheep, but "leaves the flock" (Acts 15:7), and Acts was written by some unknown author, possibly Luke, an associate of the false prophet Paul, your reference has little merit. As for your non apostolic mother Roman church, instituted by the Emperor of Rome, Constantine, and officially dedicated as the official Roman church by another Roman Emperor, Theodosius, they baptize infants, who apparently do not "repent" or receive the Holy Spirit, as they apparently require confirmation, and they are baptized in the "name of the father, the son, and the holy ghost".

    7 year olds are generally children of God and do not need baptism nor the need of some confirmation. It is the "lost" adults, who are "hanging" on to the pope, who live in "hell" on earth, who need the "repentance".
     
  5. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    In Acts, it cites an entire family that was baptized together, although we don't know what their ages were. However, we do know that there was some infant baptism that was done during the 2nd century but it wasn't the norm. It did become more common later, especially when one of the plagues hit, thus an estimated 1/3 of Europe's children died.

    What the Church did was to recognize the family as a child's source of morality when young, so whereas the father was baptized Christian, the rest of the family followed suit. However, because of the profession of faith that's needed, that was created by splitting baptism into two ceremonies: baptism and confirmation, whereas the latter repeats the baptismal vows.

    The Church is and was "apostolic", thus following the lineage of what we call "apostolic succession", and that is rather easily verified by doing some homework. Here, I'll help: Apostolic succession - Wikipedia

    That process one can see rather clearly in Acts and some of Paul's letters whereas the Twelve begin to appoint leaders and, later, successors. That process continued on through the ages even though there were political splits that took place, with the big one taking place in 1054 c.e.-- the Great Schism.

    Finally, if one truly regards themselves as being "Christian", then I would assume they would at least try and follow Jesus' teachings, but unfortunately all too many ignore those, such as those who ignore his teaching of "judge ye not...".

    Therefore, the idea that those whom are Catholic and whom acknowledge the Pope as their earthly leader are somehow "lost adults" is to stick one's thumb in Jesus' eye. It was that kind of church that taught such bigoted judgmentalism that I left almost 50 years ago because of this and also its anti-science and its racist agendas.

    Meanwhile, as we've seen all too often, many self-professed "Christians" do what Paul and Jesus said not to do, namely to attack other Christians, thus causing divisions while strutting around as if they've got all "the answers".
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The process of appointing leaders and teachers was clearly stated in the false prophet Paul's supposed epistle. Of course, this was in direct disregard of the teachings of Yeshua (Matthew 23:8-9). As for babies repenting, well, that is kind of a problem. As for families, a child is not responsible for the sins of the father, or the father responsible for the sins of the child (Jeremiah 31:30). As for one being called "Christian", I would not be among them. It would be silly to take on the name taken on by the followers of the false prophet Paul, who has nailed the "Word of God" to the cross.

    As for rebuking the wicked, well, that is something rewarded by God. (Proverbs 24:25). As for those who remain in the "daughter of Babylon", well, they "receive of her plagues" (Rev 18:4).
     
  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It's virtually impossible for me to respond to the absurdity of the above, so I'm not even going to try.
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If you had spent less time reading from unknown authors, Acts, false prophets, Paul, and the tomes of those who think they are "wise and intelligent", who God chose to hide "these things" (Mt 11:25), you would be in better shape to respond to post.
     
  9. Deidre

    Deidre Boo!

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    They teach a lot more than that.
     
  10. Apologes

    Apologes Active Member

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    With regards to the rumor of Pope Francis denying the existence of hell, I voiced my reasons for why I consider this just a very implausible rumor in another thread, but I'll repeat it here.

    In order to believe this story you'd have to believe that the pope has denounced a doctrine that has been consistently and infallibly embraced for centuries by the institution he represents, that has been established and reaffirmed as an unquestionable dogma and was defended against annihilationism (the view the article attributes to the pope) which was condemned as a heresy. Such a turn of events would cause huge shifts in the landscape of the catholic faith and we're supposed to believe that such a thing has happened in a brief comment during an obscure private meeting and then reported in a single article with no evidence what so ever backing it up, all the while the entirety of Vatican openly denies it while the pope himself hasn't shared anything about it with the general public.

    Unless and until the Church officially denounces the doctrine with a clear and unified stance on the subject this article remains yet another misrepresentation of Catholicism and it's teachings.

    Basically, if you're ready to believe that the pope just did all that an implicitly abolished the doctrine of papal infallibility, therefore tearing down the authority of the Catholic Church on doctrinal matters down effectively changing the face of Catholicism forever in such a brief, almost casual-sounding and entirely unsupported (not to mention openly denied) comment then you might as well believe anything.

    As for whether there is hell or not, I am a Catholic so it goes without saying that I believe in the existence of hell and reject both the view of universal salvation which would include those who rejected God as well as the view that those who rejected God simply cease to exist.
     
  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Of course they do, such as can be found here:Catechism of the Catholic Church

    However, not all teachings are at the same level. Also, a Catholic has the right of discernment and whether they choose to go with a specific teaching. An excellent book that covers this from a Catholic perspective is "Let Your [Informed] Conscience Be Your Guide".
     
    #51 metis, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  12. allright

    allright Active Member

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    The pope is a dope
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    :rolleyes:
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe people should beware even more so as we get closer to the time people are sent there. I believe you are calling the Bible nonsense and don't think your cherry picking represents Hell. It doesn't.
     
  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe being taught by JW's is the blind leading the blind.
     
  17. Deidre

    Deidre Boo!

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    I personally don't see the need to have the CCC, when the Bible suffices.
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It was the CC that chose the canon of your Bible in the 2nd half of the 4th century, so if the CC wasn't needed then maybe the authenticity of your Bible should be questioned. It was that church that selected the Bible, not the other way around.
     
  19. Deidre

    Deidre Boo!

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    The CC is merely a messenger not the message. That’s where it loses itself.
     
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Except that the "mark of the true church" was were your overseers appointed by those who could trace their appointments back to the apostles and to Jesus? It was that way because other groups were claiming they were the "true church" with the "true gospels".

    And supposedly where did the CC "lose itself"? The church of the apostles was never perfect as the gospels attest to even when Jesus was alive. Also, as part of Canon Law, the CC can not have any dogma that is disallowed in the Bible.
     
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