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To Christians - The Pope says there's no hell, what do you think?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
Hell as a place of burning and torment, has no legitimate foundation in the Bible.
The Bible itself clearly states, “the dead are aware of nothing / conscious of nothing / know nothing at all.” — Ecclesiastes 9:5; the dead go “back to the ground.....(their) thoughts perish.” — Psalms 146:3-4; compare Genesis 3:19.
The Bible further states that everyone (reading Ecclesiastes 9:10), goes to hell when they die.....
“Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell, whither thou art hastening.” It applies to all. (So don’t read it! LOL!!)
Please note the different renderings on the Biblehub website:
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom..
Notice, Hell is simply rendered the grave in most versions.
Peter said that even Jesus, at his death, went to “hell”, ie., the grave, for 3 days before his resurrection. (Jesus was in Hell, He just wasn’t “left” there.) — Acts of the Apostles 2:30-31; compare the prophecy at Psalms 16:10).
Christendom has been scaring people for centuries with this nonsense, trying to control the masses with fear!
Any future life prospects only come in the Resurrection (John 5:28-29), which happens “in the Last Day.” — John 6:44
The Bible itself clearly states, “the dead are aware of nothing / conscious of nothing / know nothing at all.” — Ecclesiastes 9:5; the dead go “back to the ground.....(their) thoughts perish.” — Psalms 146:3-4; compare Genesis 3:19.
The Bible further states that everyone (reading Ecclesiastes 9:10), goes to hell when they die.....
“Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell, whither thou art hastening.” It applies to all. (So don’t read it! LOL!!)
Please note the different renderings on the Biblehub website:
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom..
Notice, Hell is simply rendered the grave in most versions.
Peter said that even Jesus, at his death, went to “hell”, ie., the grave, for 3 days before his resurrection. (Jesus was in Hell, He just wasn’t “left” there.) — Acts of the Apostles 2:30-31; compare the prophecy at Psalms 16:10).
Christendom has been scaring people for centuries with this nonsense, trying to control the masses with fear!
Any future life prospects only come in the Resurrection (John 5:28-29), which happens “in the Last Day.” — John 6:44
What a great post, and thank you for sharing this. But, how about passages like this? What to make of these:
Revelation 20:14 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 20:10 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 19:20 20But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Are they merely metaphors for something else?
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
I wonder if the Pope is just trolling his audience at this point. I am then torn as to whether or not to support said trolling.
lmao!! That's hilarious. He's a convincing troll, if so.
He probably didn't say that as it would go against Catholic teaching so I wish people would stop posting it everywhere.
Frater Sisyphus
Contradiction, irrationality and disorder
Next headline:
"The Vatican denies Pope Francis exists"
"The Vatican denies Pope Francis exists"
I have a take on this that I haven't seen yet. It seems to me the Pope might be testing the waters here. That is, it could be that he intentionally ran out the idea of no hell a few days ago in such a way that it could be retracted yesterday. Doing so would allow him to gauge support and opposition to the idea. And if he wants to eventually establish the idea of no hell as Catholic doctrine, then he now has a much better notion of exactly who he needs to persuade on the issue and who supports him.
It turns out the interview never took place
Il Vaticano: Eugenio Scalfari si è inventato l'intervista con il Papa
Btw....Bergoglio's Italian is not that good (using an euphemism), so I doubt he can express theological concepts without some sheets prepared in advance.
Il Vaticano: Eugenio Scalfari si è inventato l'intervista con il Papa
Btw....Bergoglio's Italian is not that good (using an euphemism), so I doubt he can express theological concepts without some sheets prepared in advance.
Last edited:
Axe Elf
Prophet
They are not metaphors, it is these descriptions specifically which lead me to believe that there is no hell (in the pop culture sense). As you quoted (Rev. 20:10), it is only the devil, the beast, and the false prophet who will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Everyone else who was not created for salvation suffers the "second death"--being consumed in the lake of fire (as you quoted in Rev. 20:14).
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it! (It's nothing I came up with on my own....I was taught this by Jehovah's Witnesses.)
Your last question, "are they metaphors", puts you on the right track! The first Scripture you mentioned, Revelation 20:14, says "death (was) hurled into the Lake of Fire."
Can death be 'burned'?
No, but the Bible promises that death (due to sin - Romans 5:12) will be gone forever. [Isaiah 25:8; 1 Corinthians 15:26; and my favorite, Revelation 21:3-4. It's my favorite because it says "the tent of God is with mankind...and death will be no more."; it's like the fulfillment to the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-10, the Our Father), where we pray, "Thy will (i.e., purpose) be done on Earth."]
Sorry, got carried away. Back to fire: it's just symbolic of complete destruction...whatever is hurled in, will be gone forever! And isn't that what literal fire does? I mean, if you put something in fire, you ain't getting it back!
I hope I made sense. It's late here, and I'm tired.
But torment is different, too. Something to think about... Remember the three Hebrews in the book of Daniel? Thrown into the fire (literal fire, this time), but what saved them? An angel! Was the angel hurt from the fire? Why would we expect Satan to experience pain from fire?
The Bible is awesome, when you can tie Scriptures together!
More on torment, tomorrow? Ok?
Goodnight.
I do not know much about whether the interview truly took place, and I do not know how much independence the popes exercise these days.
Fiohatari
New Member
It reminds me of William Shakespeare's "Hell is empty, and all the devils are here". I never really believed in the existence of hell, on the countercontrary, I believe we pay during our lifetime for all the things that we do (and man, karma has a dark sense of humor and irony).
Interpreting the Book of Revelation literally is like swimming in peanut butter.
The Baha'i Revelation clearly and specifically revealed that the concept of Hell is symbolic of suffering separate from God in this world and all possible worlds.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
He really cannot do that as a church council would have to be called whereas there would be input from the bishops, and that even would include if he were to speak ex cathedra.
It never took place just like hell doesn't exist. Oh the irony!It turns out the interview never took place
Il Vaticano: Eugenio Scalfari si è inventato l'intervista con il Papa
Btw....Bergoglio's Italian is not that good (using an euphemism), so I doubt he can express theological concepts without some sheets prepared in advance.
From the link/article - The Vatican issued a statement after the comments spread like wildfire on social media, saying the pope never granted the interview and the story was "the result of (the reporter's) reconstruction,” not a “faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father."
This could be. But, I can't help but think that this pope doesn't really believe much of what he's supposed to teaching. As a leader of the faith, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, he still has a responsibility to follow the tenets of Catholicism. Not manufacture a new Catholicism because he wants to fill seats on Sundays. The RCC simply can't compete with non-denom Christian sects, anymore. It isn't because of all the RCC rules, etc it's because the RCC has always implied that without it, people can't have salvation. The Catholic Church wants its followers to adhere to its laws, and the Bible places second. That's why many followers have left, and why they have a hard time getting new converts. Not to say, there aren't new converts to the faith on the daily, but imo, it just seems to present false teachings that have nothing to do with Jesus.
This could be. But, I can't help but think that this pope doesn't really believe much of what he's supposed to teaching. As a leader of the faith, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, he still has a responsibility to follow the tenets of Catholicism. Not manufacture a new Catholicism because he wants to fill seats on Sundays. The RCC simply can't compete with non-denom Christian sects, anymore. It isn't because of all the RCC rules, etc it's because the RCC has always implied that without it, people can't have salvation. The Catholic Church wants its followers to adhere to its laws, and the Bible places second. That's why many followers have left, and why they have a hard time getting new converts. Not to say, there aren't new converts to the faith on the daily, but imo, it just seems to present false teachings that have nothing to do with Jesus.
https://opentabernacle.wordpress.co...re-members-than-any-other-major-denomination/
This is a really insightful article as to why the RCC is on the decline. I think that people have woken up to what the RCC is REALLY about, and it's not about the teachings of Jesus, it's not about compassion, it's about controlling the masses with rules, and usurping the teachings of the Bible, and pretending that without the Papacy, no average believer could ever begin to interpret the Bible correctly. This pope is trying to save the falling numbers, but by trying to reinvent a new Catholicism. I'd have more respect for him if he stepped down and denounced the RCC, instead of trying to change it into a new faith. If you change it, it's not Catholicism, anymore. lol
This is a really insightful article as to why the RCC is on the decline. I think that people have woken up to what the RCC is REALLY about, and it's not about the teachings of Jesus, it's not about compassion, it's about controlling the masses with rules, and usurping the teachings of the Bible, and pretending that without the Papacy, no average believer could ever begin to interpret the Bible correctly. This pope is trying to save the falling numbers, but by trying to reinvent a new Catholicism. I'd have more respect for him if he stepped down and denounced the RCC, instead of trying to change it into a new faith. If you change it, it's not Catholicism, anymore. lol
Shadow Link
Active Member
I had read a piece once concerning Catholicism. From that, the piece went into a fundamental and logical explanation of how a centralization became necessary from all of the churches started from the disciples of Jesus which eventually needed an established oversight, thus creating the 'universal' church for that purpose. Where the idea came from that decided to build smaller versions of the universal mother church, I'm unaware of. Interesting though!
But the problem is when the centralized church teaches false things. Which the RCC has done for centuries. Thus, it's losing members not for the reasons many think. There are many believers who seek Truth, and not the manmade version that the RCC teaches. Coupled with how badly they handled the sex molestation cases with their priests, they look like a Church that wants to control people instead of love them.