To Blaspheme or not to Blaspheme?

[stvdv]

And maybe the problem is in them and not in the rest of society?

No, I do not think the evil deeds would stop if the 'mocking' stopped. Those who commit these deeds would simply find another reason to feel insulted.

Do you think the mocking would stop if the evil deeds stopped?

IF the mocking is used for the greater good to stop the greater evil THEN mocking is useful, and sometimes the only tool

Thorns are needed to remove thorns (you can't stop a serial killer usually by stroking his hart)

Just use Common Sense

 

[stvdv]

While RF conversations aren't traumatic, you can kinda see this in more severe relationships and discussions as well. So, if someone says "that's their problem" in my opinion it sounds like the problem of the person who gave the "insult."

In relationships it's personal something said/done to the other
Here it's not personally said to the other; just a public picture on facebook will get you killed
Huge difference

A lot of reactions to insults are human natural reactions to threat. In some cultures like American we downplay these reactions and claim it's the victims fault especially if we felt we were sincere in our comment the other took offense.

Again also here we should distinguish between:
1) "taking offence of hearsay rules being broken" and more importantly
2) These Muslims worry about what others do; it's none of their business

 

[Revoltingest]

Blasphemy is a victimless 'crime'.

If I want to draw a picture of Jesus and Mohammad at a brothel with Moses and Buddha looking on, I should be allowed to do so without being afraid some nut will shoot me.

You've been outdone....

And in this one, we see you personally testifying....

 

[Father Heathen]

Blasphemy is healthy and cathartic.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In relationships it's personal something said/done to the other
Here it's not personally said to the other; just a public picture on facebook will get you killed
Huge difference


Again also here we should distinguish between:
1) "taking offence of hearsay rules being broken" and more importantly
2) These Muslims worry about what others do; it's none of their business

Strangers and being online one still communicates with actual people who are going through many different experiences in their lives (especially on RF so far I've seen). It really has nothing to do with the strangers (the type of relationship the person has) and whether it's in person or online. If that X person has some serious trauma or something even simpler than that, the insult is no less justified if the other way around. Our physiological feelings react to danger.

When we're threatened from abuse or insult, the neurological part et cetera doesn't tell the difference. It goes by the intensity of the insult not the context of it. That's why working through self-defeating thoughts are good because we can't control our bodies reaction to threat but we can learn to make difference whether it's a threat or not (insult vs harm) since the body can't tell the difference.

The problem is people online think everyone else is "just strangers." Let them deal with it, type of thing. But we are talking to actual people (and I would hope so, right?). So, insults aren't the fault of the victim. We all need to learn how to deal with what our bodies perceive as threats for better health. It would help (at least in person since we can't see people online which intensifies the threat) that the other person be aware of the victim's reactions.

Ideally, that's what I believe a person should do both the victim's interpretation of the insult and the other person's awareness of what he or she said whether they thought of it as an insult or not.

Ideally.

Number 2, though, I wasn't referring to that. I'd have to re-read the OP. I was just referring to insults in general and how people react to them (and in my opinion should react in a healthy way both the person giving the insult and the person experiencing the affects of it)

 

[Polymath257]

Isnt mocking a way of oppression toward those who are mocced?

It can be. It can also be a way of fighting against such oppression.

Maybe those who would commit those evil deeds just need to learn to draw and mock those who they would otherwise kill?

 

[MNoBody]

if a religion or a person cannot take criticism or roasting, lampooning even, then this is evidence of some issues.
A religion or a person who is confident in themself can take some roasting/hazing
much like gaining respect in a military squad, if you can't take the heat, well, they toss you out as being not fit for the position, because of being too sensitive which is a character defect indicating a need for some kind of psychological counseling or a big cup of grow the fork up already.
the poor little whiners....it is pathetic
oh they blaspheme our deity.....
well if that deity is not happy let them smite the blasphemer,
if they do not then maybe it's time to reassess the religion [drop the dud deity]

 

[Spirit of Light]

It can be. It can also be a way of fighting against such oppression.

Maybe those who would commit those evil deeds just need to learn to draw and mock those who they would otherwise kill?

Maybe better if all people stopped mocking, killing or in other forms harm each others due to their ego?

 

[Polymath257]

Maybe better if all people stopped mocking, killing or in other forms harm each others due to their ego?

I think it would be much better if people developed a thicker skin and weren't as inclined to let their egos be offended.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think it would be much better if people developed a thicker skin and weren't as inclined to let their egos be offended.

So if i understand you correctly, you want the world to have mocking and bullying to gain the upper hand of people that should be seen as lesser then your self?

 

[Polymath257]

So if i understand you correctly, you want the world to have mocking and bullying to gain the upper hand of people that should be seen as lesser then your self?

No. I want there to be the possibility of mocking to *combat* bullying of those who *think* they are better than others.

In this case, the people bullying are those who would kill those who draw a picture of Mohammad. They *should* be mocked. The culture that supports them should be mocked. And the beliefs that encourage them should be mocked.

The same is true in politics, for example. Mockery of those in power is a strong way to show independence of political dictators. it is a vital resource for oppressed people.

 

[Revoltingest]

So if i understand you correctly, you want the world to have mocking and bullying to gain the upper hand of people that should be seen as lesser then your self?

The other side of the coin is that when religious people express
their beliefs, this can be offensive to non-believers. We're told
variously that we will go to Hell, that we should be punished if
we don't remain silent, & that we may even be put to death for
not acting in accordance with their beliefs.
So it strikes me as fair, if religious folk want the freedom to speak
their mind about their religion & about us, then we deserve reciprocity.

 

[ChristineM]

If the mocking stopped do you not think the evil deeds would stop too? Maybe it happens because some muslims feel targeted no matter what they say or do?

No, those killers would find another excuse. Its what killers do

 

[ChristineM]

Strange that non believers can do all the mocking they want, but if a believer say something "negative " about atheists then oohh its so bad, where is the logic in that?

Say what you want you wont be killed for it

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, those killers would find another excuse. Its what killers do

Some of the extremists may already be to far gone, but do you believe that mocking or ridicule of religion is helpful in our world today? Or is the problem always those of religious belief?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Say what you want you wont be killed for it

To say I am a muslim may actually get me killed even here in Norway.

 

[ChristineM]

Some of the extremists may already be to far gone, but do you believe that mocking or ridicule of religion is helpful in our world today? Or is the problem always those of religious belief?

I have been mocked by religious people, hounded from the church i loved, for a mild disability. How was that helpful in our world?

I didn't return with a gun, i don't go around killing people for it, but i do mock the hypocrisy of religion as the need arrises. I have the experience to be sincere about it.

 

[ChristineM]

To say I am a muslim may actually get me killed even here in Norway.

What has that to do with the post i answered?

Strange that non believers can do all the mocking they want, but if a believer say something "negative " about atheists then oohh its so bad, where is the logic in that?

The chances are, if there were violence against you that it would be a far right xenophobe committing that violence and i can honestly say i have never encountered or heard of an atheist xenophobe...

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have been mocked by religious people, hounded from the church i loved, for a mild disability. How was that helpful in our world?

I didn't return with a gun, i don't go around killing people for it, but i do mock the hypocrisy of religion as the need arrises. I have the experience to be sincere about it.

There are unfortunately a few who harm others from a religious view they hold, that is of course not acceptable in our world, we should try end any for of voilance, be it by weapon or spoken evil words.
I do not support any terror but i do not support blasphemy or ridicule either.

My view is only mine, i dont speak for others, nor do i have anymore a personal problem with other people or religions or atheists. My part in this discussion was only to gain understanding of why ridicule and blasphemy happens.

Not sure i have become any more wise

 

[Spirit of Light]

What has that to do with the post i answered?



The chances are, if there were violence against you that it would be a far right xenophobe committing that violence and i can honestly say i have never encountered or heard of an atheist xenophobe...

My answer was to say, as a white guy being a muslim i am looked at as a traitor to the Norwegian people, few people here like muslims.
So it was a reply to that non muslims or muslims alike has difficulty in todays world because we look at each other with disrespect and ignorance.