To any Atheists, I Have a Few Scenarios for you to Look At.

[Cobblestones]

You're a native American living freely in Europe. You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships.

Huh? That makes no sense.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Imagine these scenarios:

1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.

1. Why is the native american living in europe?
2. Because he cannot send me a letter from the future?
3. I can't do that...

 

[Cobblestones]

1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.

The girl was living in Europe and therefore knew what the Europeans were capable of and likely to do. That she had a dream about them is meaningless.

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.

This happened quite a bit, actually, except that with every new bit of proof scientists simply added the new discoveries as data to be considered and eventually all the data compiled together helped for a theory.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.

It is impossible to prove that something does not exist but the absence of a thing is evidence of a sort. To believe something without proof is not always irrational unless it is based on literally nothing. We have no actual proof of a lot of things that are inferred through mathematics and other scientific disciplines but the inference is evidence enough. A theory is not a proven outcome it is simply the only reasonable resolution to what all the data indicates. But there are no "miracles" or even religious experiences that cannot be explained by science. To conclude that there is a God is not a conclusion based on studies using the scientific method.

You may as well exchange "church" with "ComiCon" in the above paragraph for all that your reasoning provides. Lots of people at the ComiCons have fanciful beliefs or imaginations about all manner of things that don't exist. The only difference is that most of them know that those things don't exist.

 

[gnomon]

Imagine these scenarios:

1 - You're a native American living freely in Europe. One night, you have a dream about white men coming to your land in big ships. The dream turns bleak. You dream of sickness, of disease, of death, of pain all because of the white men. When you wake up, you were so sure that the dream was real - but when you tell your elders they automatically console you... and tell you that such a thing will never happen, and that it was all a figment of your imagination. You keep believing what you saw to be true, and eventually everyone around you gives up on you as being deluded. Prove that the girl's dream was wrong.

2 - You're living in England in the 1750s. You have a firm view in mind that all swans are white. Someone then travels to Australia fifty years later and sends you back a letter telling you that they saw a black swan. But this can't be true. Swans are white. Your friend is obviously lying because black swans clearly don't exist, as you've never seen one yourself before. Prove that the man was lying.

3 - You're walking passed a church one day. The year is 2010 and your life is going pretty darn well. Suddenly, a small child strolls out and asks you why you're not inside. Not believing in a God of any kind, you smile to the boy and say you don't belong there. The boy frowns and walks back inside. You sigh. That poor child is being brainwashed. He's deluded and his parents are feeding lies to him. Prove this to be true.

1)The Native American girl was tripping on acid
2)It may be that swans in Australia are black. Also, there are a myriad of animals native to Australia that would be considered bizarre or unique to Europeans.
3)I don't believe that brainwashing is a valid concept.

That was pretty darn easy.

 

[Cobblestones]

How would someone prove a negative? Well you can't, can you? And it just so happens that in this case, the "positive" also can't be proven. So unless someone actually provides some scientific evidence one way or the other, both theists and atheists are equally justified in their views.

How do you figure that? The scientist who bases his views on what can be observed or known is on par with the guy who looks at something bad that happens to someone else and attributes it to demons?

 

[whereismynotecard]

The squirells in Toronto were black(or really dark brown). They are reddish brown down here. That was a very small but very unexpected difference I noticed while I was there. I was so excited about it.

 

[Cobblestones]

What about this:
Atheists have a belief system which include:
Enjoy life,
Call every Christian crazy,
Read the God delusion,

So Atheism is a religion, so Atheists are being that what they hate, so they should kill themselves to get rid of their religion!

If religious people weren't constantly propagating their particular fairy story, there would be no "atheists" per se not any more than you are an antiKilingon.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I've never read the god delusion...

 

[Cobblestones]

I will respond to each of you after my anatomy exam at the wet labs. Just one thing in advance, though. I'm not an idiot. Kthxbye.

I'd be interested to see your proofs.

 

[imaginaryme]

It is my personal belief that what happens on forums such as these is that people come loaded for bear, even when there's just a chipmunk. When I read the OP, the stupid brain said, need more data. After reading all replies, still need more data. How can any of this stuff be proven?

As far as I'm concerned, DarkSun is a genuine thinker; not to be dismissed lightly. Yet, that's what seemed to happen once passions were inflamed. Does this mean that atheists are passionate in their "non-belief?" Uh-oh, sounds like religious furor to me.

 

[Cobblestones]

I've never read the god delusion...

Neither have I. I must not be an atheist after all. Great! Now I have an identity crisis!!

 

[whereismynotecard]

Neither have I. I must not be an atheist after all. Great! Now I have an identity crisis!!

It's a confusing life when you cannot decide for yourself what you believe... I wonder what you and I believe then... Let me know if you figure it out.

 

[imaginaryme]

I've never read the god delusion...

Good for you. I am the AntiDawkins.

Seriously, though. I have River out of Eden by Richard Dawkins. When he discusses biology, the man's a genius; and no doubt. But when he gets anti-religious, he looks rather foolish. And from what I've heard, his "one man crusade to make atheism a religion" is looked at unfavorably in the scientific community. I like atheism, but when I hear atheists quote Dawkins, I groan.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I don't think I've ever read anything by him. I don't like atheist books. And I don't like religious books. I just like to read fictional stuff that isn't trying to debate any political or religious idea. I like to read for fun, not to be preached to.

 

[imaginaryme]

I don't think I've ever read anything by him. I don't like atheist books. And I don't like religious books. I just like to read fictional stuff that isn't trying to debate any political or religious idea. I like to read for fun, not to be preached to.

There you go. When you wanna be "preached at," you can come here and jump on an OP.
I agree, in that I have read thousands of works of contemporary fiction; but lately I've only been reading non-fiction. Well, what is truly fiction and what is not? Only the Shadow knows... muah-ha-ha-ha...

 

[richardlowellt]

[

QUOTE=imaginaryme;1749500]Good for you. I am the AntiDawkins.

Seriously, though. I have River out of Eden by Richard Dawkins. When he discusses biology, the man's a genius; and no doubt. But when he gets anti-religious, he looks rather foolish.

Perhaps you can give us a few examples of his anti-religious foolishness, you know, something that he presents that is untrue or unsupported, something extremely illogical or unreasonable.

 

[richardlowellt]

I don't think I've ever read anything by him. I don't like atheist books. And I don't like religious books. I just like to read fictional stuff that isn't trying to debate any political or religious idea. I like to read for fun, not to be preached to.

I like to read so as to be better informed, more educated about a particular subject.

 

[whereismynotecard]

[Perhaps you can give us a few examples of his anti-religious foolishness, you know, something that he presents that is untrue or unsupported, something extremely illogical or unreasonable.

Just because someone doesn't like Dawkins doesn't mean they think he's illogical or unreasonable. Maybe they just think he complains too much. I've not read anything by him, but I can imagine that I'd be very annoyed by anyone who just preaches about atheism all the time. I know people in real life who ***** about religion every time they open their mouths, and I hate them. I agree with them; I don't belive in god either, but I don't need to talk about why every second I'm alive.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I like to read so as to be better informed, more educated about a particular subject.

That's what school is for.

 

[Commoner]

Just because someone doesn't like Dawkins doesn't mean they think he's illogical or unreasonable. Maybe they just think he complains too much. I've not read anything by him, but I can imagine that I'd be very annoyed by anyone who just preaches about atheism all the time. I know people in real life who ***** about religion every time they open their mouths, and I hate them. I agree with them; I don't belive in god either, but I don't need to talk about why every second I'm alive.

If you'd read anything by him, you might lose the assumption that he preaches about atheism all the time. And calling someone foolish would certainly imply "unreasonable", wouldn't you agree?

That's what school is for.

While you're still in school.