To all Creationist/Geocentrist/Flat earthist

[Revoltingest]

A)show me a verse even metaphorically wrong
B)Personally i haven't been shown anything wrong from Quran

I'm not talking about examples, & since I don't read your book, I have none.
I was examining only the foolproof 'logical' process used by Muslims in forums....& by Xtians.

 

[Meow Mix]

Can you show me something 'completely contradictory to science' in Quran

Arabic is a complex language for most English speaking people and it's been proven time and time again through debates with Christians and Atheist by Muslim scholars that there are NO contradictions or mistakes in Al Quran and this is one of the Main reason Scientists are rushing into Islam

The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution, and it conveniently leaves out the fact that there were 2 stars before the Sun. I think that would maybe be an important fact to include if it's describing the creation process.

Scientists are not "rushing into Islam." That's quite an extraordinary claim. Even the popular video of various non-Muslim scientists like Kozai et. al -- not a single one of them has converted to Islam since. Boy, it sure seems like THEY were convinced!

 

[Atomist]

Can you show me something 'completely contradictory to science' in Quran

Arabic is a complex language for most English speaking people and it's been proven time and time again through debates with Christians and Atheist by Muslim scholars that there are NO contradictions or mistakes in Al Quran and this is one of the Main reason Scientists are rushing into Islam

I'll even grant you for the sake of argument that there is no contradictions or mistakes in the Quran... how does that demonstrate that Quran is a true and all other holy books are false.

This sounds like your logical argument
1) Quran has no contradictions or mistakes
2) If the Quran has no contradictions or mistakes then it's written by god
3) Quran is written by god.

Obviously even if you get atheists/other religious people to accept premise 1, premise 2 is a non-sequitur

 

[Autodidact]

Many scientific minds believe in Hawkins singularity, where all the matter in the universe once existed in the space of less than an atom. Then there's the resulting 4th dimensions that come from that. Seriously, why couldn't a fish swallow a man. It's happened in reality. Yet I would say squeezing even one planet into a thimball is much harder to believe that world floods and Jonah's story etc, yet many well credtialled scientists believe Hawkins.

It's not that reality is less astounding than mythology; quite the contrary. The world is much odder than we suppose. It's that one is supported by evidence, and the other is not.

btw, can you provide the report of the man who was swallowed whole by a fish and lived? Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

"And we have made the earth egg shaped".

[Al-Qur’an 79:30]


The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.



Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony

So you accept modern science then? Evolution? Earth 4.56 billion years old? Expanding universe of inconceivably large dimensions? Hundreds of trillions of stars?

 

[Autodidact]

The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

"And we have made the earth egg shaped".

[Al-Qur’an 79:30]


The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.



Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony

btw, it would not be at all surprising if the Arabs of the 7th century knew the earth was round; most educated people of the time did.

 

[ChristineES]

I just don't understand it. I have NEVER met someone, Christian or not, that believes that the earth is flat. Are there people who do? If so, who are they?

 

[Bowman]

Its not Forer Effect at work....its a metaphor used in Quran , and simple to understand . what people do cut half the verse and try to prove Quran is wrong

Actually, this is what followers of islam do all the time...as they will take one verse from their book of faith completely out of context, and claim that it is a miracle of scientific knowledge.

 

[Atomist]

I just don't understand it. I have NEVER met someone, Christian or not, that believes that the earth is flat. Are there people who do? If so, who are they?

Flat Earth Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Flat Earth Society

they're on equal intellectual levels as far as evidence goes.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

I'll even grant you for the sake of argument that there is no contradictions or mistakes in the Quran... how does that demonstrate that Quran is a true and all other holy books are false.

This sounds like your logical argument
1) Quran has no contradictions or mistakes
2) If the Quran has no contradictions or mistakes then it's written by god
3) Quran is written by god.

Obviously even if you get atheists/other religious people to accept premise 1, premise 2 is a non-sequitur

Plus, there is another flaw in that line of reasoning.

1) I wrote this post.
2) This post contains no errors or contradictions.
3) Something without errors or contradictions can only be written by god.
4) Therefore, I am god.

Of course I'm not legitimately claiming divinity. I'm simply pointing out that just because something is written free of error and contradiction in no way implies that the author of that perfect work is divine or divinely inspired.

A Thousand Suns, even if you can prove that the Qur'an is free of error and contradiction, you're still a long way off from proving that god(s) had anything to do with the creation of the book.

 

[ChristineES]

Flat Earth Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Flat Earth Society

they're on equal intellectual levels as far as evidence goes.

Well, it is my opinion that these people know the truth, but don't want to acknowledge it. It is silly to believe the world is flat, especially now when we have pictures take from space, not to mention Christopher Columbus.

 

[Atomist]

Well, it is my opinion that these people know the truth, but don't want to acknowledge it. It is silly to believe the world is flat, especially now when we have pictures take from space, not to mention Christopher Columbus.

I think the same can be said about geocentrism and most flavors of creationism (ie YEC). But unfortunately it's not true.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

I'll even grant you for the sake of argument that there is no contradictions or mistakes in the Quran... how does that demonstrate that Quran is a true and all other holy books are false.

This sounds like your logical argument
1) Quran has no contradictions or mistakes
2) If the Quran has no contradictions or mistakes then it's written by god
3) Quran is written by god.

Obviously even if you get atheists/other religious people to accept premise 1, premise 2 is a non-sequitur

I never said other books are false actually we believe in all the book sent by God to his Messengers(pbuh all) and further more all the Messengers(pbuh all) were sent to a specific tribe for a specific time there teachings aren't valid or not needed anymore .And further more if you analyze all the Religious Scriptures have been corrupted with time , Quran is the only scripture which has remain unchanged with time , there is only one edition of Quran and every word is same even if you buy from any part if world . You can check it yourself

for example Jesus(pbuh) was messenger sent by God to the tribe if Jews of that time

That is why if you read Bible tells that there is a Prophet to come who you should follow

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
[Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14]

 

[A Thousand Suns]

The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution, and it conveniently leaves out the fact that there were 2 stars before the Sun. I think that would maybe be an important fact to include if it's describing the creation process.

Scientists are not "rushing into Islam." That's quite an extraordinary claim. Even the popular video of various non-Muslim scientists like Kozai et. al -- not a single one of them has converted to Islam since. Boy, it sure seems like THEY were convinced!

Actually Quran speaks of evolution and actually its was your athieast friend Richard Dawkins who got it all wrong

Quran

25:54 "It is He Who has created man (/mankind) from WATER..."

24:45 "Allah has created every animal from WATER..."

37:11 "Just ask their opinion: are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay!"

Abu Huraira reported that The Prophet (PBUH) said: “All what of son of Adam will (be eaten???) by the earthexcept the coccyx from which he was created and from which he will be resurrected

you tell me who could have believed 1400 years ago that all living things are made out of water and the person who's telling is a person living in desert

 

[Atomist]

I never said other books are false actually we believe in all the book sent by God to his Messengers(pbuh all) and further more all the Messengers(pbuh all) were sent to a specific tribe for a specific time there teachings aren't valid or not needed anymore .And further more if you analyze all the Religious Scriptures have been corrupted with time , Quran is the only scripture which has remain unchanged with time , there is only one edition of Quran and every word is same even if you buy from any part if world . You can check it yourself

for example Jesus(pbuh) was messenger sent by God to the tribe if Jews of that time

That is why if you read Bible tells that there is a Prophet to come who you should follow

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".
[Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14]

... you don't get it... let me try again...

Even if the quran is completely perfect it doesn't follow that god wrote it or inspired it. Your whole "rebuttal" seems like a complete red herring.

If you're arguing that the Quran is a inspired by god or w/e your claim is.... it's up to you to demonstrate that. Because as far as I can tell ALL religions (and their holy books/myths) arose out of the cultural mythologies and stories told to explain stuff that wasn't previously explained.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

The Quran doesn't say anything about evolution, and it conveniently leaves out the fact that there were 2 stars before the Sun. I think that would maybe be an important fact to include if it's describing the creation process.

Scientists are not "rushing into Islam." That's quite an extraordinary claim. Even the popular video of various non-Muslim scientists like Kozai et. al -- not a single one of them has converted to Islam since. Boy, it sure seems like THEY were convinced!

Oh I see , you were talking about Evolution of Universe

Quran on formation of universe

Universal Dust

Sura 41, verse 11

"Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly" They said: "we do come (together) in willing obedience."

“Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...”

In the following verses, the Quran says that the universe was created from a gaseous mass with fine particles, the elements of which were initially soldered to form one unit

Spitzer space telescope : Spitzer Cosmic Far-IR Background Project, 2007 showed that Supernovae Generated the universe's early dust. As early as 700 million years after the Big Bang, galaxies were already filled with cosmic dust (Bykov, A. M et. al, 2005). Astronomers studied nearby supernovae SN 2003gd using the Spitzer space telescope, and found that it had produced tremendous amounts of dust. Since there were many supernovae in the early Universe, they could be the source of all this dust. These new observations show that supernovae can make a major contribution to enriching the dust content of the universe (Ben E. K. Sugerman, 2006)

Cosmic Rosetta Stone (Volker Bromm, 2008): How gas and dust came together in the early universe to form the first stars? Researchers believe that soon after big bang, matter began to form as small dust grains and gases. How the first stars formed? The computer simulation designed by Dr. Yoshida et al. (2008) and Takaya Nozawa et al. (2003) demonstrate how gas and dust came together in the early universe to form the first stars after the Big Bang Thus, they concluded that if the very massive stars populate the first generation stars, a large amount of dust grains would be produced in the early universe.

source:Dust and gas in the early universe

The Big Bang

- Sura 21, verse 30

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation) before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"

It matches perfectly with Big Bang theory according to which the universe would have been first concentrated at a very hot and dense but infinitely small point.

"Cosmology and the Big Bang" by David Pratt

Expanding universe

Sura 51, verse 47

"The heaven, We have built it with power, Verily We are expanding it."
(the present is used for the verb expand) (The word "heaven" designates all that is exterior to Earth).

 

[martenet]

in the yellow pages is says earth, and it says circle, and its says wall, so say it says in the yellow pages the earth is a circle and a wall

 

[ChristineES]

I think the same can be said about geocentrism and most flavors of creationism (ie YEC). But unfortunately it's not true.

I suppose those people are trying to protect their faith. They don't realize that you can believe the world is round (pear shaped) and not flat and you can believe that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and still have faith. The Bible was never meant to be a science book.

 

[Autodidact]

25:54 "It is He Who has created man (/mankind) from WATER..."

O.K. well people aren't made of water, so there's your first mistake.

24:45 "Allah has created every animal from WATER..."

Neither are the animals.

37:11 "Just ask their opinion: are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay!"

Or clay. That's a twofer--mistake + contradiction.

Abu Huraira reported that The Prophet (PBUH) said: “All what of son of Adam will (be eaten???) by the earthexcept the coccyx from which he was created and from which he will be resurrected

Say what? Are you saying people were created from their tailbones, and tailbones don't decompose? That's two mistakes right there.

you tell me who could have believed 1400 years ago that all living things are made out of water and the person who's telling is a person living in desert

Someone who knows nothing about Biology?

This is what you mean by being scientific? Wow, that's amazing...ly dumb.

 

[Willamena]

O.K. well people aren't made of water, so there's your first mistake.

No; we're just ugly giant bags of mostly water.