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To all Creationist/Geocentrist/Flat earthist

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Atomist, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Atomist

    Atomist I love you.

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    As a former christian, I should tell you that if you reject the scientific consensus that the earth is round and/or revolves around the earth and/or depute the merit of theory of evolution, that you're doing your cause a disservice. By holding such anti-scientific positions, you alienate many liberal christians and cause them to reevaluate their positions on scientific truths and how that ties into with their religious beliefs. Some of us find it harder to swallow stories like jonah being swallowed by fish, the 6 days creation and noah's arc as literal truths in comparison to the scientific truths (with the mountains of evidence supporting it). Others come to the conclusion that the bible is merely mythology and lose their faith.

    I, for one, lost my faith talking to a YEC and thus reevaluating my position on religion. Just looking out.
     
  2. PennyKay

    PennyKay Physicist

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    Here, here :clap

    I agree :)
     
  3. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Well-Known Member

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    1) Good, any cause for self-evaluation of any belief held by anybody is always good

    2) I doubt that the type to believe in flat earths, geocentric models, and doubt evolution will really "miss" the more reasonable ones
     
  4. Atomist

    Atomist I love you.

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    Well we don't really self-evaluate out positions until something causes us to. I wish we did, but we don't...

    That would be stupid of them if they believe all that is required to go to heaven is believe jesus died for your sins... so... yeah...
     
  5. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Well-Known Member

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    Actually I find that to be a relaxing activity if I'm doing something boring like laundry to try to build a chain of justifications for something I deem obvious and see if I surprise myself
     
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    A revolting rerun from a few months ago.

    Some fundies' beliefs will confound.
    As planets and sun go around.
    Earth's orbit is nixed.
    In space it is fixed.
    At least they admit now it's round.
     
  7. newhope101

    newhope101 Active Member

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    Many scientific minds believe in Hawkins singularity, where all the matter in the universe once existed in the space of less than an atom. Then there's the resulting 4th dimensions that come from that. Seriously, why couldn't a fish swallow a man. It's happened in reality. Yet I would say squeezing even one planet into a thimball is much harder to believe that world floods and Jonah's story etc, yet many well credtialled scientists believe Hawkins.
     
  8. Atomist

    Atomist I love you.

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    Yeah... if they were on equal playing fields then science would be in a world of hurt... but it isn't... so there...
     
  9. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Well-Known Member

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    You don't understand Hawking it appears.

    We know full well how matter can fit in a space that tiny; it's called degenerate matter -- we've made some here on earth in supercolliders on the quantum scale. You have to realize that atoms are mostly empty space, and by "mostly" I mean 99.9999999999999999% empty space -- you can pack a lot of them within the normal radius of an atom. Even the "ball and stick" models of atoms don't give you an idea of how truly, truly, "empty" they are in terms of density.

    Squeezing the entire earth into the size of a thumbnail would push it actually pretty close to the Schwarzschild radius, meaning it would be a black hole. (Earth's Schwarzschild radius is about 9 mm diameter). That's really not even that bad; the Schwarzschild radius of some galaxies is measured in light years; and considering the event horizon is essentially the cube of the density we're talking about quite a lot of matter packed into a very, very small space. It's really not anything crazy; and certainly far more reasonable than a whale swallowing a man and the man emerging days later alive.
     
  10. A Thousand Suns

    A Thousand Suns Rationalist

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    The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

    "And we have made the earth egg shaped".

    [Al-Qur’an 79:30]


    The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.



    Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony
     
  11. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Well-Known Member

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    I've read quite a few verses from the Quran that say the earth is rolled out "like a carpet" or bed... that seems flat to me. Also verses that indicate the earth doesn't move. I think all this "science in the scriptures" Forer Effect nonsense is doing Islam more bad than good.
     
  12. A Thousand Suns

    A Thousand Suns Rationalist

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  13. A Thousand Suns

    A Thousand Suns Rationalist

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    What happens on the Internet people Quote Quran out of context , no where you will you find that "earth doesn't move" in Quran

    Here it will clarify the movement of objects in universe
    All swimming in an orbit

    Some interesting articles if you have time read them
    The Coccyx

    Speed of light "In Monotheism Books, why?"

    The Darkness and the Light

    Dr Keith Moore confirms embryology in Quran

    Housefly Falls into One's Drink!
     
  14. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Well-Known Member

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  15. Bowman

    Bowman Active Member

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  16. Atomist

    Atomist I love you.

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    Yeah... it's obvious... whats going to happen is that people will think "oh of course, the [insert religion book] agrees with science, even though people have been adament for the past [insert a long period of time] that the book saids something completely contradictory to science until science shows conclusively that science is correct". Right... I suppose Nostradamus' prophecies are real.
     
  17. A Thousand Suns

    A Thousand Suns Rationalist

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    Its not Forer Effect at work....its a metaphor used in Quran , and simple to understand . what people do cut half the verse and try to prove Quran is wrong
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    The Koran can't possibly be wrong. We have 2 cases:
    A) Anything literally wrong is poetic or metaphoric, & therefore not wrong.
    B) Anything literally right is right...until it's shown wrong, in which it becomes case "A".
     
  19. A Thousand Suns

    A Thousand Suns Rationalist

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    Can you show me something 'completely contradictory to science' in Quran

    Arabic is a complex language for most English speaking people and it's been proven time and time again through debates with Christians and Atheist by Muslim scholars that there are NO contradictions or mistakes in Al Quran and this is one of the Main reason Scientists are rushing into Islam
     
  20. A Thousand Suns

    A Thousand Suns Rationalist

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    A)show me a verse even metaphorically wrong
    B)Personally i haven't been shown anything wrong from Quran
     
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