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Tithing

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Is tithing a practice in your religion?

What purpose does it serve other than funding upkeep of your church or temple?

Is giving a tithe obligatory or optional? Is there a required amount? Of so, how much?

Do you agree with this practice?

Do you think the amount requested/required is fair, or would you change it if you could?
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Is tithing a practice in your religion?

Yes.

What purpose does it serve other than funding upkeep of your church or temple?

For us, tithing is about the upkeep of the physical needs of the church; the building and upkeep of meeting houses and Temples, missionary work and education. We have a great welfare system...one of, if not the, best welfare systems around, actually, but tithing isn't used for that. It IS used to pay all the administration costs of the church, including those of our welfare system, so that all funds donated to the welfare system go to the 'end user,' or those who need the help.

Is giving a tithe obligatory or optional? Is there a required amount? Of so, how much?

One need not pay tithing if one simply wishes to be a member of the church and attend meetings, hold jobs and just 'be.' If one wishes to obey the commandments and hold a Temple recommend, however, one pays tithing. Tithing is 10% of one's 'increase,' and that is figured out by the tithe payer.

Do you agree with this practice?

Yep. Because we tithe, we don't have 99 year mortgages on our buildings. We can afford to support our missionaries. We won't go bankrupt. It does precisely what we are told it does.

Do you think the amount requested/required is fair, or would you change it if you could?

Beats the heck out of taxes and we get more out of it, looking at things practically. It's also character building, looked at spiritually, I suppose.

Whatever, we believe that God has commanded it, doing so works very well for the church and the members, and.....we don't spend half of our Sunday meetings listening to the Bishop beg for contributions to fix the roof.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Is tithing a practice in your religion?

What purpose does it serve other than funding upkeep of your church or temple?

Is giving a tithe obligatory or optional? Is there a required amount? Of so, how much?

Do you agree with this practice?

Do you think the amount requested/required is fair, or would you change it if you could?

It is in my sampradaya, for members, but not in my religion. In my sampradaya, it helps support the work and living of the monks. They have no other method of earning. The purposes are several, but one is to let everyone know, including yourself, that this religion thing is important to you. So it's partly 'put your money where your mouth is'. It's an obligatory start. 10% of gross.

Yes, I agree with it. Separates the talkers from the doers.
 
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Tumah

Veteran Member
We do tithing, both historically and today. Historically, the tithes didn't go to the Temple, but to local Priests and Levites who weren't allowed to own land (which - as you may imagine - may be something of a concern in an agricultural society), and on alternating years an additional tithe was given to the poor or eaten by the owner himself in Jerusalem.
Today we still do tithes, but because of some technical problems, we can't give it to Priests and Levites. It's also customary (and Law according to some opinions) to take a monetary tithe (10% of net), which can be used however one wishes so long as one doesn't benefit from it. Usually, the money is given to a synagogues, private schools, assorted charities, free loan organizations and of course, the needy.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Is tithing a practice in your religion?

What purpose does it serve other than funding upkeep of your church or temple?

Is giving a tithe obligatory or optional? Is there a required amount? Of so, how much?

Do you agree with this practice?

Do you think the amount requested/required is fair, or would you change it if you could?

It is a practice in our faith. Not obligatory and I agree with the practice.

More than just up-keeping church, it was the basis of seeing financial miracle in my life. It is more about me than it is about the church as it establishes who is in control of my life. It also controls covetousnes..
 

arthra

Baha'i
Is giving a tithe obligatory or optional? Is there a required amount? Of so, how much?

Do you agree with this practice?

Baha'is don't tithe. But we do have what is called the "Huquq" (or Right of God) and it is decided by the individual believer.. No one solicits any individual to contribute...

"O friends of 'Abdu'l-Bahá! The Lord, as a sign of His infinite bounties, hath graciously favored His servants by providing for a fixed money offering (Huquq), to be dutifully presented unto Him, though He, the True One and His servants have been at all times independent of all created things, and God verily is the All-Possessing, exalted above the need of any gift from His creatures. This fixed money offering, however, causeth the people to become firm and steadfast and draweth Divine increase upon them. It is to be offered through the Guardian of the Cause of God, that it may be expended for the diffusion of the Fragrances of God and the exaltation of His Word, for benevolent pursuits and for the common weal."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 15

The contribution is calculated after expenses and after a certain amount has been received as profit.

"Let him who wisheth observe it, and let him who wisheth ignore it. Verily, thy Lord is the Self-Sufficing, the All-Praised. Indeed, independence of all things is as a door of guidance unto His faithful servants. Well is it with them that have severed them- selves from the world and have arisen to serve His Cause. Verily, they are numbered with the people of Baha at the court of His resplendent Beauty."

(Compilations, Huququ'llah)

"To demand the Huquq is in no wise permissible. This command was revealed in the Book of God for various necessary matters ordained by God to be dependent upon material means. Therefore, if someone, with utmost pleasure and gladness, nay with insistence, wisheth to partake of this blessing, thou mayest accept. Otherwise, acceptance is not permissible."

(Compilations, Huququ'llah)
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes.



For us, tithing is about the upkeep of the physical needs of the church; the building and upkeep of meeting houses and Temples, missionary work and education. We have a great welfare system...one of, if not the, best welfare systems around, actually, but tithing isn't used for that. It IS used to pay all the administration costs of the church, including those of our welfare system, so that all funds donated to the welfare system go to the 'end user,' or those who need the help.



One need not pay tithing if one simply wishes to be a member of the church and attend meetings, hold jobs and just 'be.' If one wishes to obey the commandments and hold a Temple recommend, however, one pays tithing. Tithing is 10% of one's 'increase,' and that is figured out by the tithe payer.



Yep. Because we tithe, we don't have 99 year mortgages on our buildings. We can afford to support our missionaries. We won't go bankrupt. It does precisely what we are told it does.



Beats the heck out of taxes and we get more out of it, looking at things practically. It's also character building, looked at spiritually, I suppose.

Whatever, we believe that God has commanded it, doing so works very well for the church and the members, and.....we don't spend half of our Sunday meetings listening to the Bishop beg for contributions to fix the roof.
Socialism!:eek:
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Socialism!:eek:

You could be right. In fact, early Mormonism had some downright communist ideals, with something called 'the United Order" in which pure communisim was practiced....and it worked, too, until the USA instituted the individual income tax.

The difference here is choice.

When socialism and communism are the rule of law...that is, the government is socialist or communist, the individual has no choice in the matter. Those farmers in the Ukraine who were subjected to Stalin's communism had no choice at all in their government; they were communist....and they starved to death. By the millions.

Big Brother Government tells you what to think, how much to pay, what to do, how much one can own...

But when one pays tithing to the church (whichever church), one is deliberately opting into that idea, and one can just as easily opt out. It's why the United Order worked in the places it was tried...because only volunteers were involved. One could step out of that 'everything in common" way of doing things and into the larger capitalist support system.

The difference here is, I don't HAVE to pay tithing. If I don't, I won't get fined, or go to prison. It is entirely up to me if, or how much, I pay.

A socialist government, on the other hand, would give me absolutely no choice in the matter.

I think that communism...the pure kind practiced by people of real good will and intent, could be a good thing. However, there just aren't that many people like that around, and if one isn't inclined to be a good communist, and wants to, say...go invent a video game and get rich, instead, then there MUST be a way to bow out of the commune. It's why socialism and communism, as envisioned by those who want to make either one a 'government in charge' are absolutely lousy government models.

...........and why they tend to implode every time they are tried.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Taxation by any other name...

One has to understand the complete story of taxation before blaming it for all of man's ills. I see people who see taxation as only a 'take my (hard earned) money'. The other part is what you get back. Some folks are blind to that aspect.
Roads, hospitals, social security, retirement income, country defense, policing, education, care of the small % of humanity who can't earn, utilities, trade regulations, courts ...

In the case of tithing, yes, one has to consider what they get back.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Tithing is stewardship and does not fulfill a person's obligation for extending charity to those in need.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Is tithing a practice in your religion?

What purpose does it serve other than funding upkeep of your church or temple?

Is giving a tithe obligatory or optional? Is there a required amount? Of so, how much?

Do you agree with this practice?

Do you think the amount requested/required is fair, or would you change it if you could?
I do not have a religion that requires any form of tithing as I am a one-man band. But for established religions tithing is necessary for gurus and teachers/monks to be able to keep the faith from rolling on and on for years, in some cases thousands of years.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Tithing is a good way to not cling to money. If you offer it to charities, homeless people, or anyone who is in need, etc...not as an after thought, but as the first fruits of your labor, then you will be less likely to cling to it, as if it were an idol. Many people give to those in need after they have spent the balance of their money on themselves, as if it were an after thought. Personally, I feel that God set it in place as a way to not become reliant on it, or enslaved to it.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Not without checking into it first.

So..what does a charity have to be in order to avoid being termed as 'begging' (and thus, supposedly, a negative thing) to you?

Now I have attended church services where the pastor was indeed begging. The sermon would be about how people should be charitable and giving, and s/he would then go into just how much the roof needs fixing, and then passes around the plate, generally to the sound of said pastor saying something like "we love the sound of coins in the plate, but folding money, though quieter, pleases the Lord even more."

Now THAT is begging.

TV ads featuring kids singing 1 877 kars for kids...that's begging.

Salvation Army bell ringers in front of stores at Christmas....that's begging.

Guy on the corner with a cardboard sign asking for money. That's begging.

Tithing? No. We are told (all the churches I know about who believe in the concept, anyway...) that tithing is 10%. Then we are on our own to pay it or not. No begging. No haranguing from the pulpit. No pointed sermons using Malachi 3:10-12. We know what tithing is. We pay it, or we don't. It's entirely on us.

Perhaps you have a different definition of 'begging' than I do.

Not that I have a problem with 'begging.' I don't. When one needs money, one really needs to ask for it somehow or another. I do have to wonder if you decide that a charity is worth supporting, then somehow their begging isn't really begging?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So..what does a charity have to be in order to avoid being termed as 'begging' (and thus, supposedly, a negative thing) to you?

Now I have attended church services where the pastor was indeed begging. The sermon would be about how people should be charitable and giving, and s/he would then go into just how much the roof needs fixing, and then passes around the plate, generally to the sound of said pastor saying something like "we love the sound of coins in the plate, but folding money, though quieter, pleases the Lord even more."

Now THAT is begging.

TV ads featuring kids singing 1 877 kars for kids...that's begging.

Salvation Army bell ringers in front of stores at Christmas....that's begging.

Guy on the corner with a cardboard sign asking for money. That's begging.

Tithing? No. We are told (all the churches I know about who believe in the concept, anyway...) that tithing is 10%. Then we are on our own to pay it or not. No begging. No haranguing from the pulpit. No pointed sermons using Malachi 3:10-12. We know what tithing is. We pay it, or we don't. It's entirely on us.

Perhaps you have a different definition of 'begging' than I do.

Not that I have a problem with 'begging.' I don't. When one needs money, one really needs to ask for it somehow or another. I do have to wonder if you decide that a charity is worth supporting, then somehow their begging isn't really begging?

I refered to it as being a glorified component of begging.

Usually emotional appeals made for noble causes or needs spearheads the request for funds.

It's not the begging as much of an issue as it is with what they actually do with the money once they get it. I judge charities and organizations on the basis of that.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You could be right. In fact, early Mormonism had some downright communist ideals, with something called 'the United Order" in which pure communisim was practiced....and it worked, too, until the USA instituted the individual income tax.

The difference here is choice.

When socialism and communism are the rule of law...that is, the government is socialist or communist, the individual has no choice in the matter.
That is not always the case, nor are religious tithes or taxes always voluntary, either.
One can choose, today at least, to absent oneself from the church and its services, but in today's complex society, disentangling oneself from government services, the economy, the infrastructure, &c. is not practicable. Our quality of life is a product of a co-operative organization largely supported by taxation.

Tithing, as I understand it, originated in a period before government became a co-operative, social service organization. In some places the church was "the government," and pretty much ran things. Many of the services now performed by the government were church administered, and tithes supported this system, as taxes do government, today.
Those farmers in the Ukraine who were subjected to Stalin's communism had no choice at all in their government; they were communist....and they starved to death. By the millions.
Stalin's communism was a totalitarian tyranny, not a co-operative, socialist co-operative. No-one today is advocating anything of this sort.
Big Brother Government tells you what to think, how much to pay, what to do, how much one can own...
I think you're confusing 'Big Brother Government' with Big Business, ALEC, and the politicians that serve the corporate oligarchy.
In a massive, complex, interactive society like today's, anarchy is just not feasible. There must be organization and co-ordination. There must be something to prevent a predator class from exploiting the populace and arrogating all the wealth.
IMHO, a co-operative decision-making system which includes all the citizens at the table, will best maximize freedom, fairness and general prosperity.
The difference here is, I don't HAVE to pay tithing. If I don't, I won't get fined, or go to prison. It is entirely up to me if, or how much, I pay.
Because you have the ability to opt into another, tax supported system.
A socialist government, on the other hand, would give me absolutely no choice in the matter.
If, by socialist, you mean tyrannical dictatorship, then I agree. But as understood by most advocates, a socialist government like many in Europe would increase both freedom, prosperity, security and social mobility.
I think that communism...the pure kind practiced by people of real good will and intent, could be a good thing. However, there just aren't that many people like that around, and if one isn't inclined to be a good communist, and wants to, say...go invent a video game and get rich, instead, then there MUST be a way to bow out of the commune. It's why socialism and communism, as envisioned by those who want to make either one a 'government in charge' are absolutely lousy government models.
But wouldn't a social(ist) safety net, subsidized coding classes and no worries about maintaining your health insurance make it easier to take time off to create your video game?
The US is no longer the land of freedom and opportunity. The "socialist" reforms of the New Deal and Great Society have been steadily eroded, to the point that social and economic mobility is way below that of the "socialist"" countries of Western Europe.
...........and why they tend to implode every time they are tried.
Well, I can see Iceland exploding, perhaps, but I don't expect it to implode. :rolleyes:
But if we choose to live socially, in co-operative, mutually beneficial groups, absolute freedom/selfishness must be curbed.
Hear hear!
 
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