Times have changed

[firedragon]

Not too long ago the society I grew up in was mixed in culture, various faces from various places, religions, and backgrounds. When you go to the playground a politicians son, the poorest around, the richest dwellers son and the general boys and girls will play football and cricket. We learned to praise beauty. Especially if its another mans wife. Nothing perverse about it. It was just how it was. No one thinks of it as perverse or offensive but people love it. Or rather "used to".

Now, it seems like if you even praise that individual for a simple achievement or a big achievement they wonder "is this guy mocking me"? Imagine how it is when you praise another mans wife for her beauty. His hair stands, starts to sweat, and if he fears your fighting skills he goes home and fights with his wife.

We used to read a lot of history. Global history. History was part of growing up and everyone is aware. If there was a Hindu invasion in some area it was never a question of Hinduism. It was a geographical designation given to the invader. Same with the British, Portuguese or Dutch. Religious prototyping was never there.

Why??

 

[Lain]

Not too long ago the society I grew up in was mixed in culture, various faces from various places, religions, and backgrounds. When you go to the playground a politicians son, the poorest around, the richest dwellers son and the general boys and girls will play football and cricket. We learned to praise beauty. Especially if its another mans wife. Nothing perverse about it. It was just how it was. No one thinks of it as perverse or offensive but people love it. Or rather "used to".

Now, it seems like if you even praise that individual for a simple achievement or a big achievement they wonder "is this guy mocking me"? Imagine how it is when you praise another mans wife for her beauty. His hair stands, starts to sweat, and if he fears your fighting skills he goes home and fights with his wife.

We used to read a lot of history. Global history. History was part of growing up and everyone is aware. If there was a Hindu invasion in some area it was never a question of Hinduism. It was a geographical designation given to the invader. Same with the British, Portuguese or Dutch. Religious prototyping was never there.

Why??

Not sure where you're from but to me such changes in society are just part of the world cycle. It'll come again to how it was again wherever it is, although you might be dead then.

 

[firedragon]

Not sure where you're from but to me such changes in society are just part of the world cycle. It'll come again to how it was again wherever it is, although you might be dead then.

Haha. True. But whats the point of it coming back when I am dead??

I want to hear peoples thoughts on why this has happened. Or if they have some other subjective experience.

 

[sun rise]

Not too long ago the society I grew up in was mixed

You had a different upbringing than I did. We lived in a Jewish neighborhood and knew that Christians looked down on us and occasionally called us names. Blacks were in a different part of town and referred to as "them" in a very pejorative sense.

Now, it seems like if you even praise that individual for a simple achievement or a big achievement they wonder "is this guy mocking me"? Imagine how it is when you praise another mans wife for her beauty. His hair stands, starts to sweat, and if he fears your fighting skills he goes home and fights with his wife.

Again to me it's a different perspective. The circle of my parent's friends was socioeconomically based. Friends of my parents had jobs that were similar in an economic sense and having a decent income was the only measure of achievement.

But family was something else. If a cousin did something notable, praise was freely given and meant. Because, of course they were family and one member's success reflected on us all.

As far as praising a women for her beauty, it can often be an attempt to seduce her. Such things used to be under cover but that's not the case now with story after story in the media as well as in daily life. And, again looking back, I never heard a man praising another man's wife for her beauty when I was growing up. Women praise each other but never a man praise a women.

So summing up, part of what the OP Is about is your upbringing versus mine. But there's something more that I want to think about before commenting on which has to do with societal breakdown.

 

[exchemist]

Not too long ago the society I grew up in was mixed in culture, various faces from various places, religions, and backgrounds. When you go to the playground a politicians son, the poorest around, the richest dwellers son and the general boys and girls will play football and cricket. We learned to praise beauty. Especially if its another mans wife. Nothing perverse about it. It was just how it was. No one thinks of it as perverse or offensive but people love it. Or rather "used to".

Now, it seems like if you even praise that individual for a simple achievement or a big achievement they wonder "is this guy mocking me"? Imagine how it is when you praise another mans wife for her beauty. His hair stands, starts to sweat, and if he fears your fighting skills he goes home and fights with his wife.

We used to read a lot of history. Global history. History was part of growing up and everyone is aware. If there was a Hindu invasion in some area it was never a question of Hinduism. It was a geographical designation given to the invader. Same with the British, Portuguese or Dutch. Religious prototyping was never there.

Why??

I find it rather disturbing that you describe a woman as "another man's wife", as if she is property first and an individual second. Why do you describe her in this way?

 

[sun rise]

To pick up my answer. A few decades ago religion was fading, democracy was on the rise in Russia, China, Eastern Europe and elsewhere. The ideals of breaking down racism, sexism and other such "isms" seemed to be gathering force.

Now we see authoritarianism in Russia, China, some Eastern European countries and with Trump even in the USA. Every day in the media I see at least one story about bigotry often about racism but also about other examples of bigotry and hatred including putting politics ahead of science and harassing scientists as a consequence.

This is not limited to one nation but is visible all over the world. So the answer to "why" must naturally be reflective of many nations not just one.

My answer necessarily is based on my belief in Meher Baba's statements that we're living at the end of the old world/old humanity and at the cusp of a new one.

In Hindu terms, Brahman is in a transition between the first 50 "years" of life and the second half. That is associated with the end of the great Kali (iron) age and the beginning of the Sat (golden) age.

But the old order does not go quietly and neatly. It is said that "a candle burns brightest just before it goes out.". In this case the "candle" is all the negativity we see in such evidence in the world today that is not going quietly but fights for life even as it's life is ending.

 

[firedragon]

You had a different upbringing than I did. We lived in a Jewish neighborhood and knew that Christians looked down on us and occasionally called us names. Blacks were in a different part of town and referred to as "them" in a very pejorative sense.



Again to me it's a different perspective. The circle of my parent's friends was socioeconomically based. Friends of my parents had jobs that were similar in an economic sense and having a decent income was the only measure of achievement.

But family was something else. If a cousin did something notable, praise was freely given and meant. Because, of course they were family and one member's success reflected on us all.

As far as praising a women for her beauty, it can often be an attempt to seduce her. Such things used to be under cover but that's not the case now with story after story in the media as well as in daily life. And, again looking back, I never heard a man praising another man's wife for her beauty when I was growing up. Women praise each other but never a man praise a women.

So summing up, part of what the OP Is about is your upbringing versus mine. But there's something more that I want to think about before commenting on which has to do with societal breakdown.

Sun rise. I truly appreciate your post. Thank you for taking your time. But honestly what gave me a bit of a jolt was that praising a woman for her beauty can be an attempt at seduction. I am not used to it. Honestly. Praising a womans beauty used to be considered an ultimate test of a mans friendship. E.g. If I praise my neighbours wife, he would consider me a true friend. If I have strange feelings about women, a pervert or something of the sort I won't be praising my friends wife.

Same goes to women between women but I know for a fact its to a lesser degree because women might be a bit shy or whatever. They will do that only within close friends. But if a woman speaks to her friends husband openly like a good friend it is considered open with no way in hell of becoming strange or flirtatious.

 

[firedragon]

I find it rather disturbing that you describe a woman as "another man's wife", as if she is property first and an individual second. Why do you describe her in this way?

I described "another man's wife" as a "Woman". You twisted it around.

 

[Lain]

Haha. True. But whats the point of it coming back when I am dead??

I want to hear peoples thoughts on why this has happened. Or if they have some other subjective experience.

I am not yet old enough to have such a large perspective on the changes in the Zeitgeist, but in my life the few changes I have seen have all involved the character of people in reference to social media, and I personally think even political change was involved with this. The chief cause is the algorithm which desires ad revenue and more usage of sites, so it seems to me.

 

[sun rise]

Praising a womans beauty used to be considered an ultimate test of a mans friendship.

Not where I'm from. For which country/culture was that true?

 

[firedragon]

I am not yet old enough to have such a large perspective on the changes in the Zeitgeist, but in my life the few changes I have seen have all involved the character of people in reference to social media, and I personally think even political change was involved with this. The chief cause is the algorithm which desires ad revenue and more usage of sites, so it seems to me.

I think you are spot on. If you are such a young person, (Lain. I am not like 50 or 100 years old , you have more maturity.

 

[firedragon]

Not where I'm from. For which country/culture was that true?

I dont want to say Sun Rise. This is only to exchange ideas. Hope you understand.

 

[sun rise]

I dont want to say Sun Rise. This is only to exchange ideas. Hope you understand.

That's fine. The point about the difference in our cultural backgrounds will stand as is in the realm of ideas.

 

[firedragon]

That's fine. The point about the difference in our cultural backgrounds will stand as is in the realm of ideas.

I understand.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Haha. True. But whats the point of it coming back when I am dead??

I want to hear peoples thoughts on why this has happened. Or if they have some other subjective experience.

It's not clear to me that this has happened.
I don't share your experience.

 

[Shadow11]

Most men and women will feel uncomfortable of another person admiring the beauty of their spouse especially if they go on and on about it. You can admire another's spouse but you do it subtley

 

[exchemist]

I described "another man's wife" as a "Woman". You twisted it around.

Exactly. For you it is "another man's wife" , i.e. a man's property, first and only a "woman" second, it seems. I find that disturbing, largely because it seems to reinforce the stereotype of muslim attitudes to women. I had hoped for better.

 

[firedragon]

Exactly. For you it is "another man's wife" , i.e. a man's property, first and only a "woman" second, it seems. I find that disturbing, largely because it seems to reinforce the stereotype of muslim attitudes to women. I had hoped for better.

I think you are just a bias person with some kind of idea of bigotry about all Muslims and you are trying your best to twist this into what it is not.

Maybe you are trying your best to make others just like you in order to feel good that you are not alone in this world and others are also as bad as you.

Dont do cheap things. If you cannot engage decently, just stay away.

Just for your information, I was not referring to a Muslim society. Check yourself and your unbelievable racism and bigotry.

 

[firedragon]

Most men and women will feel uncomfortable of another person admiring the beauty of their spouse especially if they go on and on about it. You can admire another's spouse but you do it subtley

I didnt say anything about "going on and on about it". If someone is at it somethings wrong. And if I tell neighbour his wife is beautiful subtly he would never trust me, but if I say it ti his face openly he would trust me more. Thats how we grew up, and our parents were like that.

 

[Nakosis]

Not too long ago the society I grew up in was mixed in culture, various faces from various places, religions, and backgrounds. When you go to the playground a politicians son, the poorest around, the richest dwellers son and the general boys and girls will play football and cricket. We learned to praise beauty. Especially if its another mans wife. Nothing perverse about it. It was just how it was. No one thinks of it as perverse or offensive but people love it. Or rather "used to".

Now, it seems like if you even praise that individual for a simple achievement or a big achievement they wonder "is this guy mocking me"? Imagine how it is when you praise another mans wife for her beauty. His hair stands, starts to sweat, and if he fears your fighting skills he goes home and fights with his wife.

We used to read a lot of history. Global history. History was part of growing up and everyone is aware. If there was a Hindu invasion in some area it was never a question of Hinduism. It was a geographical designation given to the invader. Same with the British, Portuguese or Dutch. Religious prototyping was never there.

Why??

I don't know. I got married fairly young. One thing you didn't do was talked about someone else's wife in case it got back to your own.

Religious prototyping, I suspect you have to thank the media for that. The news is easier for to digest by labeling folks. A cheap way to explain cause and effect. People tend to want to know why something happened. So you label the perpetrator a religious terrorist and no longer need to be concerned about the details.