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Featured Time: Does the Bible say what Time is?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by SA Huguenot, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "I think this will give perspective on a thought:
    • that God is somehow bound by Time, and He had a Beginning.
    • God is outside of creation, that is matter moving in space, therefore he does not abide in time at all." Unquote. (the bullets by paarsurrey, text remains unchanged)
    My contemplation from Quran is that:
    • G-d is not bound by time and does not abide in time.
    • G-d, Jesus was never god nor son of god in literal and physical terms, G-d is creator of everything including Time.
    • G-d always existed and exists from eternity to eternity.
    • Creator is always outside His creation or "the created".
    • Space and Time both are creation of G-d.
    • Quran mentions day/time as a unit of period for understanding of us the humans.
    Right, please?

    Regards
    ____________
    [55:27]کُلُّ مَنۡ عَلَیۡہَا فَانٍ ﴿ۚۖ۲۷﴾
    All that is on it (earth) will pass away.
    [55:28]وَّ یَبۡقٰی وَجۡہُ رَبِّکَ ذُو الۡجَلٰلِ وَ الۡاِکۡرَامِ ﴿ۚ۲۸﴾
    And there will remain only the Person of thy Lord, Master of Glory and Honour.
    [55:29]فَبِاَیِّ اٰلَآءِ رَبِّکُمَا تُکَذِّبٰنِ ﴿۲۹﴾
    Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
    [55:30]یَسۡـَٔلُہٗ مَنۡ فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ کُلَّ یَوۡمٍ ہُوَ فِیۡ شَاۡنٍ ﴿ۚ۳۰﴾
    Of Him do beg all that are in the heavens and the earth. Every day He reveals Himself in a different state.
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 55: Ar-Rahman
    [6:97]فَالِقُ الۡاِصۡبَاحِ ۚ وَ جَعَلَ الَّیۡلَ سَکَنًا وَّ الشَّمۡسَ وَ الۡقَمَرَ حُسۡبَانًا ؕ ذٰلِکَ تَقۡدِیۡرُ الۡعَزِیۡزِ الۡعَلِیۡمِ ﴿۹۷﴾
    He causes the break of day; and He made the night for rest and the sun and the moon for reckoning time. That is the decree of the Mighty, the Wise.
    [6:98]وَ ہُوَ الَّذِیۡ جَعَلَ لَکُمُ النُّجُوۡمَ لِتَہۡتَدُوۡا بِہَا فِیۡ ظُلُمٰتِ الۡبَرِّ وَ الۡبَحۡرِ ؕ قَدۡ فَصَّلۡنَا الۡاٰیٰتِ لِقَوۡمٍ یَّعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۹۸﴾
    And He it is Who has made the stars for you that you may follow the right direction with their help amid the deep darkness of the land and the sea. We have explained the Signs in detail for a people who possess knowledge.

    https://www.alislam.org/quran/6:97
     
  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .

    Time is change dependent. That is, if there is no change, time cannot be said to exist. If all of a sudden everything---absolutely everything, including all subatomic movement (change in location)---stopped changing then time would stop. Time would cease to exist, but should anything then change, time would resume. As for the Bible saying anything about the nature of time, I don't see a thing. At most it simply describes actions within time, and this is hardly describing what time is.

    That god exists, or could exist, outside time, not "bounded" by it (whatever that means) is silly. unless, that is, his existence was entirely without change, including whatever he consisted of.

    .

    .
     
  3. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Ok, are women made in Gods image? So how can we be made in the physical image of God, if God is made up of there distinct beings, that compose single being ? The Spirit is God, the Son is God The Father is God.

    We are not made in the physical image of God, we cannot be.

    In the OT, before the incarnation, God is never seen as anything but light and energy.

    Humans were to reproduce, that is why they were made with sex organs.

    So, does God have sex, with whom, a female God, and have baby Gods?
     
  4. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Right as to time, flagrantly erroneous as to Christ. A single persons imagination 600 years after the documentation of multiple witnesses as to Christ and who He was is a sad joke.
     
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  5. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Your quote:Ok, so Time is a by product of movement of matter in space.

    My Answer: Is that really what time is?? I think not. Stories are nice but seldom convert into true reality.
     
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    You have sure missed something. I am not speaking for all Hindus. We have views as far distant from each other as North and South pole. I am speaking about what I believe as an 'advaitist'.

    Sankaracharya, the most famous of 'advaitists', said, "Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya .." (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion).
    All that which we observe with our senses is 'maya', illusion. In reality, there is no finger, there are only points of energy.
    Presentation modified by evolution in brain.
    The real seeing is when one realizes this.
    Note: Jagat/Jagan - what we see when we are awake, the world. Jagan derives from 'jna', like in 'Jnana', knowledge. One knows only when one is awake.
     
    #66 Aupmanyav, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Thank you.
     
  8. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    That God's Spirit can dwell in a woman doesn't make Him female.

    We know the names of God as given in the Bible. The greatest name is Jesus Christ. (Philipians 2:9-11)

    God created Adam before He created Israel. The God of Israel is not a woman. He is always spoken of as He. God created Adam first, in his image. Why? Because God is male.. God always knew that The Son, would be given a body. What body? We know Him as Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ was more in the image of God than Adam. He was the very exact or express image in every way. (Heb. 1:3) And Jesus Christ was and is male.

    This idea that God is a woman but calls Himself He just so as not to weaken Israel, is silly. If not blasphemous.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  9. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Women is in the image of God in that she is of Adam. (Gen. 1:27)

    Our physical image is just as much the image of God as any other part of our image.

    I don't know where you get this 'light and energy' as God. God is light. Yes. God has power, all power, yes. But God is a Person. This is why we have personality. The attributes we have, we have because God has. God is Spirit, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have shape. (John 5:37) "...ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."

    Actually God is spawning children at this time of which we who are Christians are. When Jesus rose from the dead do you think He no longer had genitiles? When your body is raised from the dead, will you have genitiles?

    Understand I do not pretend to know all about how the sex is accomplished between God and another. I am saying that we are created sexual beings because God is also.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  10. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    What you just did was to say movement is imaginary, then you just hopped over and accuse the Bible of being false.
    I explained that Time is the result of movement where we measure at least 2 objects in relation to its distance travelled, with the distance the Earth and Sun moved in relation to itself.
    If I said Time is imaginary, I explained it as the above.
    What you also missed out on is the fact that I said, this is all I found in the Bible.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    What makes you think that time does not exist without movement?
     
  12. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I agree in the sense that light has nothing to do with time.
    What I said was: We measure time with the use of the period it takes the Earth to sircumvent the Sun.
    We divide it up in 360 and a quarter days, divide that into 24 hours and divide that up into 60 minutes and divide it up in 60 to get dseconds.
    This is the measurement of Hrs and Seconds.
    I simply made a statement that if the Sun did not shine on the Earth, we will not have this time measurement.
    and I also said, If the earth did not turn around the Sun, time will not me measured as we do.
    The fact is, Time is the measurement of 2 moving objects, using the pace of which the Earth and Sun travels in relation to each other.

    We can go further, the Solar Time we use can also be used elsewhere in the Universe, but it will still have a relation to where the Earth and Sun is in relation to each other.
    or, we can use a star elsewhere in the universe, in relation to another star moving in relation to each other, and it will perhaps have a different length than our hours, but this is how time is measured.
    Now, I said, freeze everything, and time does not exist.
     
  13. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I understood what you said.
    And you are right.
    But from my view, light does not dictate Time at all.
    All it does is to show us where the Earth is in relation to the Sun.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There are many ways of measuring time, but guess what. The definition of a second, which all time is based upon, comes from light.
     
  15. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this one.
    Just to clarify,
    I said that the measurement of Time as we understand it in Hours, Minutes and seconds started in Genesis once the light of the Sun shon on the atmosphere of the Earth.
    before this there was a dim red glowing Sun, and the Earth was still shapeless (without shape) still taking form from an accretion collecting matter in its surrounding space.
    Therefore, I understand that "measurable Time, did not exist before the Solar system was operational as we know it today.
    Yet, God say that in the Beginning He created the Heavens and the Earth.
    Therefore, there was a space of Time not measurable between "In the Beginning", and "The First day."
    Going back to "In the Beginning", might as well be the Big Bang", where the universe came into existance.
    This is the point of beginning, which incidently is what science agrees too.
    Now, I say God was "Before" this "In the beginning". and this is how I understand Genesis 1: 1.
    Therefore, before Time was measured as we do before the First day, there was a time period where time was not measured, but it went back all the way to "In the beginning".
    Then we have a point in history where God created everything, resulting in an understanding that He existed before this Time.

    This is why I say, God exists free of Time and it has no effect on Him.
    We age and measure it with our solar time.
    He does not age, and exists outside of Time.
     
  16. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Time is nothing more than a period that has been assigned by man. Time passes the same in light as it does in darkness.
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    :facepalm: A person cannot make a scientific argument when he does not understand the sciences.
     
  18. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Again Time is nothing more than a period that has been assigned by man. Time passes the same in light as it does in darkness.
    Age is nothing more than the effect of time, whether it be in light or darkness.
     
  19. Base12

    Base12 In time, you will see it.

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    I have researched this topic in-depth for many years. It's one of my favorite studies.

    Long story short, the Bible describes Time as a perpetual 'loop'.

    The end connects to the beginning like an Ouroboros.

    Revelation connects right back to Genesis.
     
  20. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I understand Time as a period that passes.
    how will one measure a moving object travelling away from point a into space.
    We will say, it travells at say, 10 Km per hour.
    How do we find an hour?
    We need the period measurement as the Earth traversed the Sun.
    How do we get distance? (The Km)
    We need a pre determined measurement of distance.
    Now, Distance is easy, we can measure the earth, divide it up into smaller sections and call it our measurement.
    We can even divide the distance between the sun and earth into smaller useable measurements.
    Therefore, to get Distance, we need an object occupying a large area., this is called Space.

    Ok, so distance is not a problem, we will use the Km measurement.
    Now we need to find the period of a travelling body in space, to determine the time it took to travel the KM.
    This is where we need 2 objects moving in relation to each other.
    We can use the Sun and Earth because it moves in relation to each other.
    We will then divide this movement up in measureable unist, and in this case we will use the Hour.

    Now, we could also have used other moving bodies such as 2 distant stars encircling each other to create our own measurement of time, but be as it may.
    To measure Time, you need 2 moving bodies, and measure the period it takes to travel around itself.
    Now, it is also possible that both these bodies can travel through space at the speed of light, but we wont know, because we can only observe the movement in relation to each other.
    It might also be that one of these bodies are stationary!
    But, again, we wont know, because we have only these 2 reference points to observe.
    Now, lets do an experiment.
    Stop everything, no movement.

    What do we get?
    No time.
    Therefore, Time is the measurement of matter moving in space.
    Remove matter, and Time seizes to exist.
    If God created matter, He came before Matter, and Space, therefore He is not affected by Time at all.
     
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