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Featured Thy Kingdom Come

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Jan 23, 2023 at 11:13 AM.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    is capitalism part of the heavenly ideal?


    can a rich person enter into heaven?
     
  2. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    yes on the rich person.

    Capitalism? Though it is basically approved by Jesus it is also corrected by Jesus. IMV
     
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  3. idea

    idea Question Everything

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    If heaven is a place where everyone is self-reliant, responsible, hard-working, productive...

    I mean what qualities define refined, perfected beings for everyone?
     
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Then you don't follow Matthew 19:23-24 ?

    Doesn't something have to change regarding earthly treasures
     
  5. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    Not at the expense of Matthew 19:26

    When earthly treasures are used for the benefit of God's purposes, they are changed to heavenly treasures.
     
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  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    Ill-gotten gains are ill-gotten gains.
    They cannot be transformed through charity .. only legally gained wealth is blessed by charity.

    Jesus speaks the truth when saying how hard it is for a rich man to enter heaven.
    The Kingdom of G-d will be inhabited mostly by the poor.
     
  7. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    Correct.

    Do you believe Abraham was rich? And would he be in Heaven?
     
  8. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    I don't think any of our isms matter, particularly, to the heavens. As long as there is fairness and balance it seems they're okay with whatever we got.
    Sure. Why not?
     
  9. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member

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    I never said that a rich person cannot inherit the Kingdom of G-d.
    I said they will be few in number.

    Wealth is a huge test for us, and most are corrupted by it.
    We cannot have two masters.

    On the other hand, disregard for wealth is not responsible.
    There is no blessing in extreme poverty, which can also corrupt.
     
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  10. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    And Thy Kingdom Go
     
  11. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    With God anything is possible.
    Im not sure about money in heaven, but there's a lot of talk of valuable stones.
     
  12. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    There's actually quite a bit in the Bible about God blessing people who are Godly with wealth.
    Everything ultimately belongs to God, but he seems to like to loan it out.
     
  13. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    But the passage says specifically that a rich man can hardly entered heaven. He even tells the young rich man to sell everything he has and follow him
     
  14. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    There is a huge difference between a meritocracy and other forms of governing/ruling.

    There is also many stories of the downfall of those who didn't follow the ideal of love and were self serving. Was Jesus a capitalist?
     
  15. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    Yes... but you still didn't address that "With God all things are possible".

    Did Zacchaeus have to sell everything he had?

    Did God establish Deuteronomy 28:1-15 to condemn the Jewish nation or as a recompense for obedience?

    If you can answer those questions, you can readdress what Jesus said to the rich man and why he asked him to sell everything he had.

    Actually, you may also find the answer in Deuteronomy 8.
     
  16. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on what is meant with "capitalism" and "rich".

    Is this capitalism:
    “For it is like a man, going into another country, who called his own servants, and entrusted his goods to them. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one; to each according to his own ability. Then he went on his journey. Immediately he who received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. In like manner he also who got the two gained another two. But he who received the one went away and dug in the earth, and hid his lord’s money. “Now after a long time the lord of those servants came, and reconciled accounts with them. He who received the five talents came and brought another five talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents. Behold, I have gained another five talents besides them.’ “His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a few things, I will set you over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ “He also who got the two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents. Behold, I have gained another two talents besides them.’ “His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a few things, I will set you over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ “He also who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you that you are a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter. I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the earth. Behold, you have what is yours.’ “But his lord answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant. You knew that I reap where I didn’t sow, and gather where I didn’t scatter. You ought therefore to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back my own with interest. Take away therefore the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. For to everyone who has will be given, and he will have abundance, but from him who has not, even that which he has will be taken away. Throw out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
    Matt. 25:14-30
     
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  17. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    I don't think Jesus was here to teach about monetary systems or how best to govern.
    His kingdom isn't of this world.
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    With love all things are possible but that only works in regards to meritocracy, talent for being responsible for the needs of the whole, and loving thy neighbor. That isn't a leap of faith but an actual understanding of what it means to love god and neighbor LITERALLY as self.

    The rich can't get into heaven until all the extraneous baggage is stripped away.

    You can't serve love for all as self and serve just love for self.
     
  19. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Serving all is not the same as self serving. Meritocracy is based on skill, or talent for being responsible for a lot more than just self. Capitalizing for only self interest isn't the same thing.
     
  20. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Epic fail

    Matthew 23:13

    13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
     
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