1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Three Days and Three Nights??????

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Bangbang, Feb 11, 2006.

  1. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    Okay Mr. BB, my answer to your question is in a rough draft form and it is obviously taking me more than an hour. It may take me another day or two to get my answer to the point of being able to back up all that I say. This is a subject that I have thought about and studied in the past. It is a very tricky one to answer, and involves many scriptures. I have abandoned the idea of backing up my claims according to what others think on this subject, and have decided to back up my claims with scripture only. It will take me a while to get them all together. I have the basic draft of what I want to say, but there are a few things that are holding me up. I don't know when I will be able to resolve these issues so there will be no doubt as to the proof that there were 3 full days and 3 full nights.

    Yes, there were actually 3 full days and 3 full nights that Jesus Christ's body lay in the tomb. I will be able to prove this with scripture, but it is going to take some time to get them all together.
     
  2. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Ratings:
    +71
    Ok I am waiting. I am glad you are willing to do this.
     
  3. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    Here is the timeline.

    Sunday- Jesus said unto his disciples, "Ye know that after two days is the feast of the Passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified. Matthew 26: 2

    Monday- "There came a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat. But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, to what purpose is this waste ? For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman ? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. For ye have the poor always with you, but me ye have not always. For in that she hath poured this ointment on my body, she did it for my burial". Matthew 26: 7-12

    Tuesday- "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover ? -Matthew 26: 17. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them, and they made ready the passover". Matthew 26: 19

    Passover is from Tuesday 6:00 pm to Wednesday 6: 00 pm. And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the Lord. Numbers 28: 16

    Tuesday 6:00 pm- "Now when the even (6:00 pm) was come, he sat down with the twelve and they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me....-Matthew 26: 20-25 They eat the passover meal, and break bread and drink the wine for the Last Supper and Jesus says that Peter will deny him three times before the cock crows."Matthew 26: 26-35

    Tuesday evening after the Last Supper- Jesus Christ and his disciples go to the Garden of Gethsemane and Jesus prays three times. Matthew 26: 36-44

    Tuesday probably around midnight- "Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me. And while he yet spake , lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people...."Jesus Christ is betrayed and led away captive. Matthew 26: 45-57

    Wednesday probably after midnight to 6:00 am- Caiaphas and the other chief priests and elders work Jesus over pretty good. He is spit upon and smitten. Peter denies Christ two times. Matthew 26: 58-72

    Wednesday probably around 6:00 am- "And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of then, for thy speech betrayeth thee. Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man, and immediately the cock crew". Matthew 26:73-74

    Wednesday 6:00 am, or early morning- "When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death: And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor". Matthew 27:1-2 Judas hangs himself, Pilot works Jesus over, he then asks if the Jews want Barabbas or Jesus released. Matthew 27: 2-23

    Wednesday before 9:00 am- The Jews cry for Jesus to be crucified and Pilot has him scourged and sent to be crucified. Jesus is given a scarlet robe, crown of thorns, and a reed in his right hand. He is then mocked and spit upon. They take the reed from his hand and smite him on the head. They take his robe off and he is led away to be crucified. Matthew 27: 23--31

    Wednesday 9:00 am- "And it was the third hour (you must add three hours from 6:00 am), and they crucified him". Mark 15: 25

    Wednesday 12:00 pm-3:00 pm- "Now from the sixth hour (you add 6 hours from 6:00 am) there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. (you add 9 hours from 6:00 am) About the ninth hour (again you add 9 hours from 6:00 am) Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli Eli, Lam sabachthani ? that is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me ? Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost". Matthew 27: 45-46, 50

    Wednesday 3:00 pm- "Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God". Matthew 27: 54

    Wednesday 6:00 pm- "When the even (6:00 pm) was come, there came a rich man of Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple. He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed". Matthew 27: 57-60

    The day after the passover, from Wednesday 6:00 pm to Thursday 6:00 pm, was the first day of the seven day feast of unleavened bread, which was an holy convocation, or sabbath day. In the first day shall be an holy convocation, ye shall do no manner of servile work therein. Numbers 28: 18

    Thursday- "Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation (passover), the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first. Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can. So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch". Matthew 27: 62-66

    Friday-

    Saturday- weweekly sabbath. Christ was resurrected after 3:00 pm but no later than 6:00 pm. The prophecy was than fulfilled which said that he would "rise the third day".

    Sunday towards dawn- "In the end of the sabbath (Saturday evening), as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher. And, behold there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, an sat upon it. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead. And as they went to tell his disciples, behold Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him". Matthew 28: 1,2,5-9
     
  4. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Ratings:
    +71
    So jesus rose after 4 nights?
     
  5. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,762
    Ratings:
    +604
    He may have risen during the satruday night, and was therefore not there for a full night.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Ratings:
    +71
    Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil:
     
  7. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    8,762
    Ratings:
    +604
    Do you disagree? Because if you do it would be helpful, not to mention a bit more appropriate, if you tell why you disagree.
     
  8. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    BangBang, you can always ask Bill. ;)
     
  9. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    Matthew 28: 6
    He is not here:for he is risen. as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

    Mark 16: 9
    Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    Luke 24: 6-7
    He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

    John 20: 1
    The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

    Jesus Christ had already risen by the time Mary Magdalene had reached the tomb. It was still dark, therefore we know it had not been one complete night. You cannot count Saturday night as being a full night.

    Also Jesus Christ said he would rise on the third day. It was still dark when Jesus Christ appeared to Mary Magdalene.
    I believe that Jesus Christ rose exactly three full 24 hour days from Wednesday at 3:00 pm to Saturday 3:00 pm but did not show himself to anyone until Sunday morning before dawn, or before 6:00 am. Therefore, this proves that at least it had not been a complete night in the tomb. it was not a complete night.

    Plus Jesus Christ himself said over and over and over, "I will rise on the third day"

    He had to have risen Saturday sometime between 3:00 pm and before 6:00 pm, before he appeared to Mary Magdalene, in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled, that he would rise on the third day.
     
  10. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    I think Jesus Christ rose sometime between 3p and 6p, Saturday afternoon. The reason being is because at 3p it would have been a full 72 hours and it had to be before 6p because Jesus Himself said that he would "rise the third day"
     
  11. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Ratings:
    +71
    A) The Day of Christ's Crucifixion and Burial

    "And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, THE DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH...." (Mark 15:42 RSV)

    I cover the day of Christ's death and burial first, since once this is established, it is easy to demonstrate that Sunday is the day of Christ's Resurrection, called "the third day" in the New Testament.

    The above text (Mk 15:42) is the key text as I read the accounts of the crucifixion and subsequent burial of Jesus (Mt 27:57-64; Mk 15:42-47; Lk 23:50-56; Jn 19:31-42), since the phrase "day of Preparation" is clearly DEFINED by the Gospel of Mark as "the day BEFORE the Sabbath." It is agreed by every commentator and scholar I have checked on the subject that the Jewish Sabbath mentioned here is the Seventh-day or SATURDAY Sabbath, and therefore the "day before the Sabbath" can only mean FRIDAY. Further, St. Matthew calls the very next day (SATURDAY) the day AFTER the Preparation (Mt 27:62).

    The technical term "Preparation" (Greek Paraskeue / Latin Parasceve) is used for FRIDAY as well in the deuterocanonical books of Judith (8:6) and Second Maccabees (8:26), in the Jewish historian Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews 16:163), and in the early non-canonical Christian documents, Didache (8:1) and the Martyrdom of Polycarp (7:1).

    "The day on which Christ died is called 'the Preparation' in Mark 15:42 and John 19:31...The same day is in view in Matt 27:62 where the events recorded took place on 'the day after the Preparation' (RV). The reference would be to the 6th day of the week [or FRIDAY]. The title arose from the need of preparing food etc. for the Sabbath." (Vine, page 483)

    No other day has ever been suggested by the term "Preparation" or "the day BEFORE the Sabbath" (Mark 15:42) other than FRIDAY. Conclusion: Jesus was crucified and buried on a FRIDAY.

    The New Living Translation, the most recent in scholarly Evangelical Bible versions, even translates the key text as follows:

    "THIS ALL HAPPENED ON FRIDAY, the day of preparation, the day before the Sabbath..." (Mark 15:42 NLT)

    Now Tony Lee, who believes Jesus was crucified on Wednesday (to allow for "three days and three nights" which he insists means 72 hours) and arose on Saturday, appeals to what I call the "two-Sabbath theory" -- there were actually TWO Sabbaths talked about during the events.

    From a previous post of Tony Lee (7/21/98) --

    TL> But it is sufficient to say THIS explains the two Sabbaths required by the "spices" of Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56. There were TWO Sabbaths within the week we are covering in the New Testament. >>

    No, two Sabbaths are not required -- they are not even hinted at in the text. But with this theory in mind, I am assuming Tony would probably argue the "day before the Sabbath" means the day before the FIRST Sabbath (Thursday), but not the day before the SECOND Sabbath, which we agree is Saturday. However, again I submit there is not one shred of evidence for this two-Sabbath theory (the meaning of "high day" Sabbath will be explained below cf. John 19:31) in the Gospel accounts of the burial of Jesus, and no commentary I have checked has ever mentioned anything but ONE Sabbath in the parallel accounts.

    Tony also tries to assert a contradiction in the Gospels on the spices, and that will be answered below. If the Sabbath mentioned in Luke 23:56 and Mark 16:1 (cf. Mt 28:1; Jn 19:31,42; 20:1) is the one and only SAME Sabbath -- the Seventh-day or SATURDAY Sabbath -- there is no evidence of this "two-Sabbath theory" and the FRIDAY crucifixion and burial of Jesus must be accepted as it has been for nearly 2,000 years.

    "...all four Gospels are unanimous, as is the entire tradition of the Church, that Christ died on a Friday." (Warren Carroll, The Founding of Christendom [1985], p 366)

    "The latter word 'preparation', can mean 'day of preparation' (Mk 15:42; Mt 27:62; Jn 19:14,31,42). It refers to the day of the Jewish week immediately preceding the Sabbath (i.e. Thursday evening to Friday evening)....Here Friday must be meant, as the next clause makes clear [Lk 23:54]." (I. Howard Marshall, The Gospel of Luke [1978], p 881)

    "The fact must be faced that no example of the use of [Preparation Day in Greek] is cited for any day other than Friday. The use for Friday is cited, both by linking the term with the Sabbath (Josephus, Ant 16.163), and, from the second century, absolutely (Didache 8.1; Martyrdom of Polycarp 7.1). The evidence that the term was used for Friday must be accepted." (Leon Morris, The Gospel According to John [1995], p 687)

    "Almost all scholars agree -- and the Gospels are quite clear -- that the Crucifixion took place on a Friday; Jesus lay in the tomb on Saturday (the Sabbath); and he rose from the dead on the third day, Sunday." (William Proctor, The Resurrection Report [1998], p 163)

     
  12. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    That preparation day was the passover and the next day was a holy convocation, or sabbath.

    There were two sabbaths that week. 1) the first feast of the unleavened bread sabbath (on thursday)and the 2) weekly sabbath (on Saturday),

    The preparation day was the passover and the sabbath that followed was the first day of the seven day feast of the unleavened bread, which was a holy convocation, or a sabbath day. The Jews have a weekly sabbaths and also sabbaths they observe during certain days of their Jewish feasts.

    Numbers 28: 16-18

    16- And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the Lord.

    17- And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

    18- In the first day shall be an holy convocation, ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:

    John 19: 31

    The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation (which is the passover), that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their lags might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

    The high day was the first day of the seven days of the feast of the unleavened bread, which was a holy convocation or sabbath, in which no servile work was allowed.
     
  13. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    891
    Ratings:
    +71
    That is very interesting and I need to do more research to get this clear in my mind. Thankyou for putting some effort in to this discussion
     
  14. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    After studying the feast of the unleavened bread, it all becomes very clear, everything makes sense, and it all falls into place.

    Jesus Christ was the passover lamb, that was slain, on the "preparation day", of the passover. The next day was an holy convocation day, or the first feast day, of the seven days of unleavened bread, which was a sabbath.

    At 12:00 pm on Wednesday, on the "preparation day" of the passover (the passover started on Tuesday at 6:00 pm and ended on Wednesday at 6:00 pm) Jesus Christ becoming our Lord and Savior by becoming the "lamb that was slain for the sins of the world". Jesus Christ was declared "King" at 12:00 pm while he hung on the cross and suffered for our sins.

    John 19: 14

    "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King."

    In order to figure out what the sixth hour is you need to count 6 hours from 6:00 am, which is 12:00 pm. You have to understand that the biblical "24 hour day" begins at 6:00 pm and ends 24 hours later at 6:00 pm. The clock starts itself at "O" again every 12 hours. So, what we call 6:00 am, is the first hour of the "day" in biblical terms. What we call 9:00 am is called "the third hour" in the bible. We start our 12 hour clock at 12:00 pm and 12:00 am. The bible starts it's clock at 6:00 pm and 6:00 am.


    Genesis 1: 5

    "And God called the light Day, and darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."


    Jesus Christ is our King. He is our Lord and Redeemer. He was the passover lamb that was slain for the sins of the world. He became our Savior by the sacrifices he made on our behalf. He bore our guilt and shame, "the chastisement of our peace was upon him" and "by his stripes we were healed". His body was a living sacrifice for our sins. He redeemed us from sin and death if we would but believe in him and his sacrifice on behalf of our sins. He reconciled, or redeemed us, so we could live with him and the Father.
     
  15. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    No, thank you for bringing up so many extremely valid and pertinent questions. EVERY question that you have posted was extremely important, in understanding this timeline. I am so glad that you asked every one of your questions, starting with the beginning of this thread. I have always wanted to get my thoughts about this subject organized, and written down, but never seemed to have a desire to, until now. All that I have posted on this subject is based on the "passover", and the "seven day feast of unleavened bread", in Numbers 28. Everything that I have posted can be backed up, and verified, with scripture.

    I use scripture to validate scripture. This is the way the scriptures are designed. Many times it is absolutely necessary to research other scriptures, in order to properly understand certain parts of the Old and New Testament. I also draw upon the wisdom of others to understand and validate what I believe to be true. This subject, however, was a subject that I have not drawn upon any wisdom of man for my conclusion. The scriptures themselves validate and prove themselves to be true, in every case. All scriptures are intertwined, and exist together, in order to stand as a complete, and correct witness, that Jesus is the Christ.

    Great questions !!! and a great thread !!! I am extremely thankful to you for starting it. Thank you very much for bringing these things up and for starting this thread. It is something that I have thought about quite a bit and is such an interesting subject (the timeline of Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. It was very stressful, at times, trying to get this all posted, but it was also exciting to share my thoughts on this. It was well worth the effort and I hope you realize the important role you played in getting these things out in the open, with people that might otherwise be unwilling to talk about. It is exciting when you see the timeline, in the light that it was inteded. It opens up and frees your mind to so many truths of the bible. Truly the Old Testament testifies of the Messiah or Moshiach to come.

    Jesus Christ was the "passover lamb" that was "slain for the sins of the world".
     
  16. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    I just decided to check myself on my timeline and found this page that verifies what I have said. Keep in mind I did not consult ANYONE on this timeline. I only looked at what scriptures had to say.

    I am very surprised to see there is a link that validates what I have already said.

    I will quote from this link: Click in this link: Lamb and Lion Ministries and then once you are there, type in the search site box: The Resurrection of Jesus in Prophecy

    "Jesus was crucified at about 9:00 am on Wednesday morning (April 25th). At noon, darkness filled the land. At about 3:00 pm Jesus died."

    An amazing statement. I have never read any statements validating my view on this. This is the first time I have seen anything like this. I just googled "two sabbaths during the crucifixion and resurrection" to make sure I was correct in my statements. It is all there in scripture. And obviously others have seen it too. It is extremely exciting to know that the bible never contradicts itself. Jesus Christ really did die and resurrect after three full days and nights. The truth is not always so clear. It requires a deeper study into the word of God. the bible. We all need to be more familiar with Jewish traditions, such as the "seven day feast of the unleavened bread", which is what gives us insight into the timeline of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
     
  17. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    19,902
    Ratings:
    +3,251
    If he rose anytime after sunset, it was already Sunday according to Jewish reckoning.
     
  18. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
  19. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    I know, that's why I said in another post that it had to be between 3p and 6p on Saturday afternoon for the prophecy to have been fulfilled. We just do not know for sure. That's why I left the window so wide open. I do not personally believe it was after 6p on Saturday night.

    Excellent observation and so very true. The resurrection could not have happened after 6p Saturday night. All we know is that he appeared to Mary Magdeline by Sunday morning very early before it was light. It was still dark, so that leads me to believe that it was before 6p, and he had almost certainly been resurrected all night, and was just waiting for the right person and the right situation to show himself. I will have to change that post to fully reflect my views. I certainly agree with what you have pointed out. I am glad that you understand what I am talking about..
     
  20. FFH

    FFH Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    12,063
    Ratings:
    +374
    This post right after the one you read, MB, more fully and accurately expreses my views on the time frame of the resurrection. An event that went unwitnessed, by any human on earth, at the time. The "Shroud of Turin" is the only evidence, we have, of the actual event of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
     
Loading...