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Thousand oaks shooting

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Criminals do not follow the law.

That's the whole point... the regulations are in place for the law abiding citizens who don't need the regulations. Criminals or the mentally unstable aren't going to abide by the laws and regulations.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
But given that we have settled our gun regulation differences, why do you think that the U.S. seems to be turning oit so many mass murderers?

2 reasons maybe:

  1. Bad music ie: (pumped up kicks, The Toadies Possom Kingdom, death metal, gangster rap, etc.)
  2. Media -highlighting continued coverage for maximum profits.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
2 reasons maybe:

  1. Bad music ie: (pumped up kicks, The Toadies Possom Kingdom, death metal, gangster rap, etc.)
  2. Media -highlighting continued coverage for maximum profits.
Regarding music, we can not deny that music is exceptionally motivating and mood altering. That said, I think that music presents a chicken and the egg type argument. Isn't music merely expressive of beliefs and emotions already possessed. And doesn't listening to music play feelings already possessed?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
To purchase, own, or possess a car? Or are we talking about regulation of public use?
We register our car with the Licencing Authority, the DVLA, so yes, that covers 'purchase, own or possess' - in fact when you sell a car you have to submit a declaration to the DVLA too.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Regarding music, we can not deny that music is exceptionally motivating and mood altering. That said, I think that music presents a chicken and the egg type argument. Isn't music merely expressive of beliefs and emotions already possessed. And doesn't listening to music play feelings already possessed?

No. Musical lyrics inspire. Even subconsciously. It's undeniable.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
So suggesting that violence has a psychological/sociological aspect makes me blind? Don't you think "we have too many stabbings because we have too many sharp, pointy objects." is perhaps a bit short sighted?
No, it is the tunnel vision that this is the only or main reason.
The US has the highest rate of deaths by fire arms, the US has one of the loosest laws on possession. Yet the gun lobby focus is on mental health, social issues.
The UK has just as many mental problems/ psychological/sociological aspects in our population.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
2 reasons maybe:
  1. .)
  2. Media -highlighting continued coverage for maximum profits.
Concerning media. It is curious to me our relationship with Media. We have embraced and become addicted to this so fully that I cannot help but think of the Chinese Opiate dens. Only instead of opiates we have chosen a meth of sorts.

Adults and children mindlessly tick away at smartphones, tavlets, computers and television in an effort to glean something novel. Their anxiety through roof, their echo chamber so complete that any form of contrary thought must face immediate ridicule until stomped into oblivion, banned, or wholly ignored.

We see movies or read stories about a dark authoritarian government, yet the never did we imagine that we would imprison and torture ourselves by choice.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
No, it is the tunnel vision that this is the only or main reason.
The US has the highest rate of deaths by fire arms, the US has one of the loosest laws on possession. Yet the gun lobby focus is on mental health, social issues.
The UK has just as many mental problems/ psychological/sociological aspects in our population.

What about Czech Republic, with the most lax gun laws and least amount of gun violence. Sorry, it's not adding up, I just think it's something else.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
No, it is the tunnel vision that this is the only or main reason.
The US has the highest rate of deaths by fire arms, the US has one of the loosest laws on possession. Yet the gun lobby focus is on mental health, social issues.
The UK has just as many mental problems/ psychological/sociological aspects in our population.

I think you've misunderstood me. My point had nothing to do with gun control. Of course guns need restrictions and regulations. I'm not suggesting that we should *only* look at mental health, but it is definitely something that warrants consideration. Also, unlike a gun, a knife is a common household tool. Would you restrict the whole of society to plastic sporks, or require a citizen to contact a government assigned agent to come cut their dinner into bite-sized pieces?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
We register our car with the Licencing Authority, the DVLA, so yes, that covers 'purchase, own or possess' - in fact when you sell a car you have to submit a declaration to the DVLA too.
This is only because the car is assumed to be purchased with intent to drive and business practice dictates such as we have established title as means of establishing ownership. You can build a car from scratch and there is no penalty for not registering it unless you drive it in public. That is to say, it is not illegal to purchase, own, or operate on vehicles on private land if those vehicles are not registered.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
No. Musical lyrics inspire. Even subconsciously. It's undeniable.
Certainly music inspires. But does it inspire feelings that are not already there to some degree. Can strange fruit inspire feelings when one does not already possess those feelings, could Abel Meeropol have written that poem without those feelings?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Certainly music inspires. But does it inspire feelings that are not already there to some degree. Can strange fruit inspire feelings when one does not already possess those feelings, could Abel Meeropol have written that poem without those feelings?

Yes. And people who tend to be attracted to nefarious lyrics, such as murdering a woman behind a boathouse, or stealing your dads .22 and shooting at people, might lack some logical sense.

...I'm still skeptical about the glorification of it tho in modern music.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Though, I'm not for restricting free speech, I just think we need some prominant people to speak out against violence. Possibly even the lyricists themselves. Could be that would help.

...Or else just stand up and boycott them.

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<Edit> Some DJ's in California have already openly stood out against both of those songs, and refuse to play them on the radio. I think that's smart.
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
I think the kids should be listening to more positive music, to expand their mind. And trust me, you can definitely party to this music. It's very simple to do.

 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Is it possible, has there been any study to see which reduced the shootings in Finland, tighter regulation on guns, or addressing mental health that may previously have gone untreated? That's the thing... does one mask the other? Correlation does not imply causation.
Without going into details, gun control here isn't that much different than in the shootings heydays. The exception is that if you want a handgun you need to have active membership in a shooting range for 2 years and be over 20. Mental health on the other hand is taken more seriously now and talked about in public.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
When I see that i think wow, only a couple more per 100k than places that have virtually outlawed guns, and that includes any gun deaths and only gun deaths.
only a couple more ?!? Really?

Gotta love the way you think. At a glance it is over 6 times the average of other Countries.
 
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