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Thousand oaks shooting

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Curious George, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall us ever having laws like yours.
    After the Dunblane killings in the late 90's we tightened up on handguns and there haven't been many gun related since
     
  2. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I don't recall asking solely about your "gun related" killings. I am asking how the gun laws impacted the actual homicide rate.
     
  3. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Actually apparently I was sort of on the right track. UK and some US statisticians treated multiple homicides as one incident until the late 90's, at which point they diverged into multiple incidents. So there won't be consistent graphs because of it. But since 1998 violent crime has gone down in the UK, with occasional spikes that are generally short lived.
     
  4. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    "Homicides generally increased from the 1960s up to the early 2000s (the peak in the year ending March 2003 includes 172 homicides committed by Dr Harold Shipman). There has been a general downward trend since the year ending March 2003."

    Homicide - Office for National Statistics
     
  5. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    If that is correct then the homicide rate was even lower diring the previous years as generally more people are charged with homicide than people are killed.
     
  6. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I don't know.
    It is certainly a 'touchy' topic for you. It seems obvious to the rest of the world what the problem is but not the US, you can't even talk about the subject.
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Lol, no it os not a touchy topic. Just doing my best to keepya' honest.
     
  8. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, like I said, the peak is because the standards of counting homicides changed.
    It means that graphs from both times will create the false appearance of a rise in homicides because multiple people killed will count as multiple homicides when they weren't before.
     
  9. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Is there somewhere where you see that note?
    But multiple charges would them have previously counted as multiple homicides even when there was only one death.
     
  10. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Have I been lying???? Not that I'm aware of.

    The UK currently has a problem with knife fatalities, but we are not blaming mental illness, we are looking at access to knives.
    But at least knife crime rarely involves multiple causalities.
     
  11. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Did I say lying?!? I meant that you were clearly demonstrating confirmation bias and trying to focus on an argument, that while important, completely sidestepped my reply to you. Now did you do this in order to lie? No, i don't think so at least. Rather, I think you were attempting to tout statistics that conformed to your opinion; the post to which you were replying be damned.
     
  12. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    No, multiple people killed would have been considered one incident of homicide by the past reports. I'm reading it in a book breakdown of a graph linking to this: Homicide - Office for National Statistics
    Specifically this part:
    But honestly reading this document is a huge slog.
     
  13. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Ban knives and you'll see all kinds of shivs. Better work hard to solve the underlying social and mental health issues.
     
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  14. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    OK, keep your guns, good luck.
     
  15. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Look at how violence against children is allowed (corporal punishment) in your country and how it compares to increased violence statistics worldwide. Many mass shooters in your country are veterans with mental illnesses with access to guns. Less wars and you'll have less traumatized veterans. Better universal healthcare and less killings like this. Restriction for guns for people with some types of mental illness that relate to suicide or homicidal inclinations. Lots of things that could be done.
     
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  16. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    They are looking at social (not sure about health) issues, you will never manage to 'ban' anything; control is the idea that is being looked at.
     
  17. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Of course mental illness is a key source. Rational intelligent people don't do what these people are doing.

    The data is b******* when it comes to the cause. A politically motivated bandaid that does nothing more than remove protections from individuals at great risk to individual freedom and the right for a person to protect him or herself with a firearm.

    I bet North Korea has a very low death rate from firearms. Gun control works there, so the statistics must be accurate in which there are no mass killings in North Korea.

    Like I said governments don't practice gun control , but they sure do like to put it on their civilian populations.

    But I agree with you this will just turn into another gun debate, .And I will continue to remind people that cars kill more people than guns and everybody goes into a circle again.
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    We have laws against rape, too, but rapes still occur. However, they do occur far less often when we have laws against it, and we enforce them. And society does have some recourse for protecting ourselves when someone does commit rape. So the argument that if a law does not work 100% of the time, that it's useless and should be eliminated, is just foolish and illogical.

    Also, gun laws, like any laws and regulations, don't work very well when they are not unilaterally applied or unilaterally enforced. Chicago also has strict gun laws but half the suburbs around the city will sell guns to anyone who'll pay. So the city ends up being awash in them, and gun deaths there are very high. California is surrounded by western states that worship the whole idea of guns and gun violence and have almost no gun regulation. So the laws in California are easily circumvented by an afternoon's drive.
     
  19. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    My understanding of that quote is that it is dealing with a different data set that treats multiple killings as one incident, not that killings were in the past reported that way.
     
  20. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I see gun control as akin to banning or regulating sex to solve a rape problem (if we are going to use rape as an analogy).

    And it sounds like you are just makimg excuses regarding the circumventing of "stricter gun laws." As far as that is concerned one can 3d print a gun.
     
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