1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Thousand oaks shooting

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Curious George, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    Well, another mass shooting. Thousand Oaks, California. California has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

    Is there some reason why we keep producing mass murderers?
     
  2. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    5,273
    Ratings:
    +2,089
    Yes, because people have access to mass murder weapons.

    People can not actually murder in masses outside of serial killing which requires finesse and secrecy.

    US likes to blame mental illness, as if US is the only nation with severe mental illness.

    Do we need to start another debate as to how other countries are much better with mass murder statistics compared to US?

    One might argue, why California or Chicago does so poorly even with its strict laws, but the answer is simple. If it cant control its borders as to how weapons enter the legislated areas, then those laws are futile. However, countries that can control its borders and control that actual weapons within have much better success at doing so.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    68,974
    Ratings:
    +26,028
    Religion:
    Erotic Dancing Girls
    "Strict gun laws" is an oxymoron in America
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    Messages:
    6,025
    Ratings:
    +1,499
    Religion:
    Pelagianism
    I have no idea...really....
    I wreck my brain but I can't figure out why

    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    13,747
    Ratings:
    +6,536
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I'm an advocate for more restrictive gun laws. They clearly helped us in Australia.
    But having said that, I think there's much more at play, and can only assume there is a strong cultural aspect to this.
     
  6. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    Except that he bought his weapon legally in California. It is hardly about California regulating its borders as weapons enter from other less restricted areas.

    Moreover, there are plenty of ways a person can engage in mass killing beyond guns. I am not so confident that guns are the problem. Perhaps if you said gun culture, I might think the idea was worth exploring. But, just blaming guns doesn't work.
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    When I see that i think wow, only a couple more per 100k than places that have virtually outlawed guns, and that includes any gun deaths and only gun deaths.
     
  8. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    I can only imagine that it is a cultural thing. Not that other countries are exempt from this cultural thing-there see to be mass killings the around the world. It does seem like we have more and more in the U.S. and despite decreases in crime and violence, the U.S. of mass murder seem to increase.
     
  9. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    To be fair, I used strict in relation to other U.S. areas.
     
  10. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Ratings:
    +344
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Our laws are much more strict than the Czech Republic, and they have nowhere near the proportions of gun violence that we have here.

    ...I sometimes wonder why that is.
     
  11. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    Messages:
    943
    Ratings:
    +344
    Religion:
    Catholic
    It has to be the culture. Right?

    ...But I wonder what about the cultures make them different.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    I am not sure about Czech gun laws. There are certainly instances of countries and areas with more relaxed gun laws and less deaths. It is hard to compare countries though because there are many different variables.

    I just wondered why people think the U.S. culture keeps turning out mass murderers.
     
  13. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    18,328
    Ratings:
    +6,519
    Religion:
    Hinduism, Vaishnava
    He was a former Marine. He was examined and wrongfully cleared of mental illness. So he was able to legally buy a gun, a handgun. Now it’s coming out he should never have been cleared.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    I do not know much about modern Czech culture in order to contrast.

    I think that news coverage of mass murder, national politics, villification of others, Mental health stigma, prohibitive cost of mental health, parenting, praise of violence in culture, fear mongering, propaganda, just to name a few potential cultural issues.
     
  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    18,328
    Ratings:
    +6,519
    Religion:
    Hinduism, Vaishnava
    Relative numbers. What’s the total population of the Czech Republic?
     
  16. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    13,747
    Ratings:
    +6,536
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Rightly or wrongly, I'm increasingly starting to think of the US in it's own category.
    Similarities amongst other first world nations don't seem to apply as universally to the US.
    (not saying that as a positive or negative, it can be both depending on the topic at hand)

    It's like some strange new form of American Exceptionalism, but less good.
     
  17. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,468
    Ratings:
    +1,911
    I would like to know where the U.S. went off course. In many aspects the U.S. has improved over the years. In other aspects the U.S. has issues that have grown. Do these go hand-in-hand? Is it possible to disentangle the progress with the failure?
     
  18. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    13,747
    Ratings:
    +6,536
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It's beyond me.
    If it helps, every country is the same in that sense (improvement and issues both evident over time).
    You guys just seem to have done it in a unique way.
     
  19. suncowiam

    suncowiam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    5,273
    Ratings:
    +2,089
    Of course, it's gun culture. Guns don't kill people. People being allowed guns due to a pro gun culture, kills people. It's a culture that allows the ease and convenience of owning deadly weapons. Gee, what could possibly happen by doing that?
     
  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    12,666
    Ratings:
    +3,211
    Religion:
    deist
    Yes. Dreadful. They seem to go on and on.....

    Did the murderer get the gun illegally?

    If guns were as easily available in the UK as in 'strict' California, we would be experiencing similar incident frequencies over here.
     
Loading...