Thoughts on the "No atheists in foxholes" argument

[Revoltingest]

None of us are rational, not in a complete way, of course. The interesting part is the assumption some people make that rationality is always the best way of approaching things, which is not really the case. Ironic.

What I find even more striking are those who employ personal
abuse to disabuse another of wrongful views. They rage that
their "facts" don't convert the other from wickedness, when such
facts are mere opinion. That too is irrational.

 

[ecco]

Did I say anything about living nicely? It has nothing to do with ego. I was clear, as a Christian who believes the Bible, there are no atheist's.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Now you've gone beyond posting NONSENSE to posting MALE BOVINE FECES.

Do you believe ATLAS is a/the God?
Do you believe ALLAH is a/the God?
Do you believe SHIVA is a/the God?

If not, why, in your wildest dreams, would you imagine that I believe that the entity written about by a bunch of people wanting to start a new religion 6000 years ago is a/the God?


Why do you have a desperate need to believe that there are no people who realize that gods are the creations of man's imaginings? Made up creations just like Mickey Mouse, Wonder Woman, Spiderman, and Harry Potter.

 

[ecco]

ecco previously:
What makes you believe "the question of whether this is 'all there is'" is inevitable?

Experience.

From the mouth of an atheist.

You do understand the meaning of the word "inevitable" don't you?


Your single anecdotal experience is hardly a sound basis for declaring something is inevitable...certain to happen; unavoidable.

 

[ecco]

Perhaps you should consider this compulsion more closely.

See post #102.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Now you've gone beyond posting NONSENSE to posting MALE BOVINE FECES.

Do you believe ATLAS is a/the God?
Do you believe ALLAH is a/the God?
Do you believe SHIVA is a/the God?

If not, why, in your wildest dreams, would you imagine that I believe that the entity written about by a bunch of people wanting to start a new religion 6000 years ago is a/the God?


Why do you have a desperate need to believe that there are no people who realize that gods are the creations of man's imaginings? Made up creations just like Mickey Mouse, Wonder Woman, Spiderman, and Harry Potter.

No, I think I was clear. I, as a Christian, believe what the Bible says about God.

I have no expectations that you believe or will believe what I do. But, this is what I believe.

It is not a 'desperate need'. It is my belief. I can no more change it then you can yours.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Samantha Rinne]

One of the popular arguments used by Christians is that "there are no atheists in foxholes." I recall a man in my childhood church who was fond of using this statement. Now, I think it is highly unlikely that this statement is true. While many people probably do call out to a childhood deity in times of personal crisis, I highly doubt that everyone does. But, for the sake of argument, let's suppose the statement is true, and that everyone who is in a foxhole believes in God. How could this possibly be used as a legitimate argument for the existence of God? Do the Christians who are so fond of making this claim really think that a person in a foxhole is in the best frame of mind to rationally weigh the evidence for and against the existence of God and come to a logical decision? If anything, I would think that people are less rational and more driven toward erroneous and superstitious beliefs when their lives are in danger. Thus, if anything, I would say that the "no atheists in foxholes" argument is a better argument against the existence of God then for it, because people in immediate danger are obviously not going to be thinking as carefully about evidence as people who are in an environment where they have time to rationally and calmly consider arguments for and against the existence of God.

I only have a beef with the claim that atheism is rational or logical.

Atheism Is Irrational

Atheists assert that you cannot possibly have a God anywhere, something basically impossible to assert. Lacking the ability to explore the entire universe, this is a statement of faith, yet it is one that is not borne by evidence in a world where creation (thereby evidence of a Creator) is all around us. While you could prove something other than a God created all you see, such as aliens/kami spirits/people from the future or extreme past/or some kind of natural laws, you would necessarily have to explain how something inside of time creates before such a thing as time or matter exists.

On the other hand, I have no problem believing that people maintain their assertions at the face of death, just not that they are rational or logical. In the face of death, fear is likely to win out over whatever you formerly believed. Which is, I assume the point of the expression, that some atheists are likely to call on God to save them. But the inverse is also true, that some religious types might abandon all hope.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheists assert that you cannot possibly have a God anywhere, something basically impossible to assert.

Come again?

An atheist doesn't have to assert a thing. Anyone who doesn't believe in any gods is an atheist.

 

[ecco]

I was clear, as a Christian who believes the Bible, there are no atheist's.

No, I think I was clear. I, as a Christian, believe what the Bible says about God.

I have no expectations that you believe or will believe what I do. But, this is what I believe.

It is not a 'desperate need'. It is my belief. I can no more change it then you can yours.

So, when it comes to ATLAS you are an atheist.
So, when it comes to ALLAH you are an atheist.
So, when it comes to SHIVA you are an atheist.

Yet you stated "there are no atheist's."

You are either very confused or very hypocritical.

 

[ecco]

I only have a beef with the claim that atheism is rational or logical.

Atheism Is Irrational

Did you read and understand the article or did you get swept up in the enticing (to you) title?

If you did read and understand it, then you should be able to quote those passages that explain why "Atheism Is Irrational".

 

[ecco]

Atheists assert that you cannot possibly have a God anywhere, something basically impossible to assert. Lacking the ability to explore the entire universe, this is a statement of faith, yet it is one that is not borne by evidence in a world where creation (thereby evidence of a Creator) is all around us.

N O N S E N S E.

You are certainly not the first person to try to make this silly argument. It essentially boils down to: You can't know everything, therefore you can not assert that no gods exist. N O N S E N S E.

Gods are the creation of man's imaginings. Psychic snowflakes are the creation of man's imaginings. Mickey Mouse is the creation of man's imaginings. Spiderman is the creation of man's imaginings.

Do you need to know everything about the universe to be able to assert that there is no Mouse piloting a steamboat while whistling?

 

[Audie]

No, I think I was clear. I, as a Christian, believe what the Bible says about God.

I have no expectations that you believe or will believe what I do. But, this is what I believe.

It is not a 'desperate need'. It is my belief. I can no more change it then you can yours.

Good-Ole-Rebel

For clarity, that is "what I personally choose to drcide to brlieve
the bible says...".

There are a lot of opinions, yours is one among many.

Unless of course you claim to be infallible.

But never mind that. Lets ficus in on "cannot change".

That may well be so for you. Dontbassume others share this
misfortune, or consider it a point of pride to have a mind
welded shut, and 100% committed to intellectual dishinesty.

For further clarity, I speak of intelkectual honesty thus-

Any unvestigator, be it medical, forensic accounting,
criminal, whether the person is a reporter, weatherman,
scientist, or historian whose mind is made up and
afterwards incapable of any change
REGARDLESS OF ALL EVIDENCE is no researcher at all.

The person is a fraud, a disgrace, dishonest,
they've destroyed their credibility in thd eyes of all.

Given any sort of reasonable badis to think
there even could be a god, I would be intrigued.
With enough more, I could say all glory
unto god, I believe.

My guess is that if you read this at all, your only
way to react will be to ward off any chance of the
ideas I expressed getting through.

 

[Audie]

I only have a beef with the claim that atheism is rational or logical.

Atheism Is Irrational

Atheists assert that you cannot possibly have a God anywhere, something basically impossible to assert. Lacking the ability to explore the entire universe, this is a statement of faith, yet it is one that is not borne by evidence in a world where creation (thereby evidence of a Creator) is all around us. While you could prove something other than a God created all you see, such as aliens/kami spirits/people from the future or extreme past/or some kind of natural laws, you would necessarily have to explain how something inside of time creates before such a thing as time or matter exists.

On the other hand, I have no problem believing that people maintain their assertions at the face of death, just not that they are rational or logical. In the face of death, fear is likely to win out over whatever you formerly believed. Which is, I assume the point of the expression, that some atheists are likely to call on God to save them. But the inverse is also true, that some religious types might abandon all hope.

I have a problem with people making up things
about people they do not know, still less underdtand,
and then stating them as facts.

Why you wish to do this is something you may wish
to work out with yourself. Perhaps your "god" has
some suggestions- false witness, say.

As an atheist I know you are talking nonsense,
as well as I'd know it if you asserted that Chinese
use chopsticks because we dont know what forks are.

It would be no less wrong or insulting of you than
you are being about atheists.

That your beliefs are just, as you seem to say,
what you (choose to) believe and assume
is fine, who cares.

That does in no way make any of it true
special or rational, nor in any way superior to
the entirely rational non belief in things for
which there is zero physical evidence,
math or logic.

Side note-ever wonder why it is that the only
way that theists have ever found to argue against
either evolution or atheism is to make things up?

 

[j1i]

.

In as much as the claim that there are "no atheists in foxholes" is absurd, I believe one has to ask why such a stupid statement it's made in the first place, which I believe comes down to some psychological need of those who claim its truth.

Soooo . . . . .why do you think people claim it's so?

1) Their need for god is so great they can't imagine anyone else going without it. Atheists are only fooling themselves.
2) Their need for a reassurance their faith is true is so great they deny the possibility that thinking people like themselves could conclude any differently.
3) (Your turn )
4)
.
.
.
.​

.

It is astonishing that human beings are born and become 20 years old and you see them speaking as if they understand the universe

While universe continued to exist in the billions, and some look at it as stupid and self-made without smart maker and the universe did not exist as intelligent beings?

Man is afraid to find an object that is superior to him and wants to show himself in leadership even in dialogue and deny everything

It is really stupid individuals whose age does not exceed 100 thinkers and scientists and have superior industrial inventions believe that the universe that existed billions of years ago stupid and not sophisticated and weak industries do not match the human industry? !!

Really crap

How the human being is unappreciative.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

So, when it comes to ATLAS you are an atheist.
So, when it comes to ALLAH you are an atheist.
So, when it comes to SHIVA you are an atheist.

Yet you stated "there are no atheist's."

You are either very confused or very hypocritical.

No, concerning that there is a God, I am no atheist. You can name any other god other than the God of the Bible and I will say that he is no god as there is only one God, the God of the Bible. That doesn't make me an atheist. Just means I reject the false god you present.

The Bible indicates there are no atheists. You may believe in a false god, but that doesn't make you an atheist.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

For clarity, that is "what I personally choose to drcide to brlieve
the bible says...".

There are a lot of opinions, yours is one among many.

Unless of course you claim to be infallible.

But never mind that. Lets ficus in on "cannot change".

That may well be so for you. Dontbassume others share this
misfortune, or consider it a point of pride to have a mind
welded shut, and 100% committed to intellectual dishinesty.

For further clarity, I speak of intelkectual honesty thus-

Any unvestigator, be it medical, forensic accounting,
criminal, whether the person is a reporter, weatherman,
scientist, or historian whose mind is made up and
afterwards incapable of any change
REGARDLESS OF ALL EVIDENCE is no researcher at all.

The person is a fraud, a disgrace, dishonest,
they've destroyed their credibility in thd eyes of all.

Given any sort of reasonable badis to think
there even could be a god, I would be intrigued.
With enough more, I could say all glory
unto god, I believe.

My guess is that if you read this at all, your only
way to react will be to ward off any chance of the
ideas I expressed getting through.

Well, I did read all you said, and I think I get the gist of it. And, having had some discussion with you before, I would say this. The sort of 'evidence' you seek to prove God, you will not find. God will not be found, doesn't want to be found, that way.

The believer on the other hand, believes. The door is open. He now enters a spiritual life with God and has eternal life. God has declared and the believer believes. Just that simple. Your evidence or lack of evidence against God, changes nothing in his belief.

This is why I said, I cannot change what I believe and neither can you.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Audie]

Well, I did read all you said, and I think I get the gist of it. And, having had some discussion with you before, I would say this. The sort of 'evidence' you seek to prove God, you will not find. God will not be found, doesn't want to be found, that way.

The believer on the other hand, believes. The door is open. He now enters a spiritual life with God and has eternal life. God has declared and the believer believes. Just that simple. Your evidence or lack of evidence against God, changes nothing in his belief.

This is why I said, I cannot change what I believe and neither can you.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Gist wise you got none of it.

Too alien for you I guess.

Good place to drop it.

 

[ecco]

Man is afraid to find an object that is superior to him and wants to show himself in leadership even in dialogue and deny everything

Nonsense.

 

[Audie]

Nonsense.

Breathes there anywhere a theo who can present
an argument without making things up??

 

[ecco]

No, concerning that there is a God, I am no atheist. You can name any other god other than the God of the Bible and I will say that he is no god as there is only one God, the God of the Bible. That doesn't make me an atheist. Just means I reject the false god you present.

You feel the same way toward Allah and Atlas and Shiva as I do. I just take it one step further and also reject the nonsense god you believe in.

The Bible indicates there are no atheists.

The Bible indicates it's OK to beat slaves.
The Bible indicates it's OK to rape captured young virgins.

You may believe in a false god, but that doesn't make you an atheist.

I don't believe in your made-up god and I don't believe in the madeup god of the Muslims or of the Greeks or of the Hindus.

But, hey. If it makes you happy to believe that everyone believes in non-entities, go for it.

Way back in my youth, I was convinced that no truly intelligent person could believe in something as silly as a god. I changed my mind when I realized the power of religious indoctrination on very young children.

 

[j1i]

Nonsense.

Breathes there anywhere a theo who can present
an argument without making things up??

The universe breathes billions of years ago
You are breathing for several years and will soon disappear
The universe remains smarter than human in survival techniques
But in the eyes of the unaware and the non intellectual, man remains smarter in understanding that there is no creator of the universe from which he will soon disappear.

The atheist insists that the universe is out of nothing, The atheist is believed to be an understanding creature that came from an non understanding way out
Atheist interpretations challenge his experience of billions of years of intelligence, and in interpretation as if inevitable