Thought Doesn't Require Language

[The Hammer]

Well, yes, but to express that requires language.

To express it quickly and clearly sure. But it's not necessary imo

 

[RestlessSoul]

Language is a perpetual Orphic song,
Which rules with Daedal harmony a throng
Of thoughts and forms, which else senseless and shapeless were.
- Percy Shelley, Prometheus Unbound

Thus language clothes thought, gives it order, articulates it. But where do the thoughts originate? In Shelley’s metaphor, language leads thought up from the underworld, which he conceived of here as a sort of collective unconscious similar to that identified by psychiatrist and early psychoanalyst Carl Jung - Jung, like Shelley, was a lover of Greek mythology.
(See ‘Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious’, Jung).

This points us in the direction of the unclothed thought; meditation can bring us closer to the experience of that thought. In it’s purest form then, what is thought? The heartbeat of the universe, cosmic waves intersecting amidst oceans of eternity, the breath of God within the mind of man?

Or maybe thought is merely a series of electrical impulses registering in the material brain of a sentient being. Perhaps there is nothing mysterious or miraculous happening here at all; perhaps we just think there is…

 

[vulcanlogician]

I found this article that discusses some data on the subject:

Can we think without language? - MIT McGovern Institute

The tldr is that cognition happens fine, even when something (like a stroke) impairs the language centers in the brain. But some (limited) evidence suggests that language and thought co-develop, being something like a left foot and right foot in cognitive processes.

Personally, I think in words AND images, as well as amorphous impressions. I think the more precise question is: Is all human thought reducible to language? I'm not sure it is. I think language does the job fairly well for describing (pretty much all) thoughts we might have, but in some cases, things are lost in translation.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I found this article that discusses some data on the subject:

Can we think without language? - MIT McGovern Institute

The tldr is that cognition happens fine, even when something (like a stroke) impairs the language centers in the brain. But some (limited) evidence suggests that language and thought co-develop, being something like a left foot and right foot in cognitive processes.

Personally, I think in word AND images, as well as amorphous impressions. I think the more precise question is: Is all human thought reducible to language? I'm not sure it is. I think language does the job fairly well for describing (pretty much all) thoughts we might have, but in some cases, things are lost in translation.

I have no images. I am mostly words and some emotions/feelings. Of course some words are emotions/feelings.

 

[VoidCat]

Well, yes, but to express that requires language.

As someone who goes nonverbal at times I agree.
That video seems really hard to explain without language. It'd be next to impossible to express that kind of thought without words be it written or verbal or even words communicated by touch(tactile sign)

Edit: it might be doable with some creativity but I doubt it would work well and there's a very very very high chance of it not being understood. I certianly wouldn't attempt it

 

[Mock Turtle]

I found this article that discusses some data on the subject:

Can we think without language? - MIT McGovern Institute

The tldr is that cognition happens fine, even when something (like a stroke) impairs the language centers in the brain. But some (limited) evidence suggests that language and thought co-develop, being something like a left foot and right foot in cognitive processes.

Personally, I think in words AND images, as well as amorphous impressions. I think the more precise question is: Is all human thought reducible to language? I'm not sure it is. I think language does the job fairly well for describing (pretty much all) thoughts we might have, but in some cases, things are lost in translation.

I think we can think without words or language but I tend to agree with Russell cited in your article, as to - “to make possible thoughts which could not exist without it.” And is perhaps why humans have developed so much more than all other species.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

As someone who goes nonverbal at times I agree.
That video seems really hard to explain without language. It'd be next to impossible to express that kind of thought without words be it written or verbal or even words communicated by touch(tactile sign)

Edit: it might be doable with some creativity but I doubt it would work well and there's a very very very high chance of it not being understood. I certianly wouldn't attempt it

Here is how I learned it. A logical positivist tried to teach me the pitfall of non-concrete thinking. So here it goes:
Him: You know all the problems with abstract thinking and concepts, which we confuse for actual real things?
Me; Yes.
Him: Now imagine a type of humans who had only concrete language and thoughts. Wouldn't that be better?

I could never explain to him, that he relied on abstract thinking to claim that concrete thinking was better. He couldn't understand it, because it made sense to him.

 

[VoidCat]

Here is how I learned it. A logical positivist tried to teach me the pitfall of non-concrete thinking. So here it goes:
Him: You know all the problem with abstract thinking and concepts, which we confuse for actual real things?
Me; Yes.
Him: Now imagine a type of humans who had only concrete language and thoughts. Wouldn't that be better?

I could never explain to him, that he relied on abstract thinking to claim that concrete thinking was better. He couldn't understand it, because it made sense to him.

The more i think on it
It's probably possible to explain the video without language. But it does involve a lot of abstract thinking on both sides(I think in pictures so language wouldn't be needed to think). It involves loads of creativity for sure. It'd be really hard to get the point across

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The more i think on it
It's probably possible to explain the video without language. But it does involve a lot of abstract thinking on both sides(I think in pictures so language wouldn't be needed to think). It involves loads of creativity for sure. It'd be really hard to get the point across

I only think in words.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's only when verbal and NVC are incongruent though as to which is more believable.

If we try to communicate with someone who speaks a different language, body language can get us so far, but it's a real hassle and very limiting. I doubt we can even communicate 10% of what would be possible verbally if we spoke the same language in such a situation.

We can certainly say a lot non-verbally, but words open up an exponentially greater world of possibilities to us.

I've found people are people regardless the language. Being relaxed or tense, having joy or sorrow, such things are basically the same regardless of spoken language. As I have come to discover, no matter the language laughter is laughter.
And being autistic I challenge the last claim as even mathematics I think it in pictures, like an abstract, "psuedo-concrete" puzzle in my head, images that aren't really tangible yet something I can bring to order.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I've found people are people regardless the language. Being relaxed or tense, having joy or sorrow, such things are basically the same regardless of spoken language. As I have come to discover, no matter the language laughter is laughter.
And being autistic I challenge the last claim as even mathematics I think it in pictures, like an abstract, "psuedo-concrete" puzzle in my head, images that aren't really tangible yet something I can bring to order.

Yeah, but even as an only close to being autistic, we are not the same. I only have words in my mind and no pictures. So there is that.

 

[Balthazzar]

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

I agree - The advantage of language is in the communicative process. At one time we used art, paintings, etc. to communicate a thing. Language arts is a passion of mine, but I agree that language isn't necessary for thought. Expression - Logos - The Word - Language - Hey, it was in the beginning after all, if only as an expression.