Thought Doesn't Require Language

[The Hammer]

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

 

[Augustus]

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

Not all thought requires language, but thought may involve the internalisation and intuitive processing of language in a way that we can intuitively process anything we become skilled at. This may give the impression we are thinking without language, but we are really integrating linguistic concepts faster than we can vocalise them internally.

A mechanic might intuitively understand what is wrong with an engine by the sound of it in less time than they could logically think through the process. But this is really just a form of learned and internalised knowledge.

We wouldn't say that because he can understand faster than he can explain that he is not relying on practical knowledge honed and perfected over time.

In the same way we might process thoughts without language, yet these are thoughts we learned and honed via language.

 

[VoidCat]

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

Ah duh. I thought this was obvious. I mean even if you dont count how I think with pictures most the time Deafblind folk exist and they can still think even if born Deafblind.

 

[The Hammer]

Not all thought requires language, but thought may involve the internalisation and intuitive processing of language in a way that we can intuitively process anything we become skilled at. This may give the impression we are thinking without language, but we are really integrating linguistic concepts faster than we can vocalise them internally.

A mechanic might intuitively understand what is wrong with an engine by the sound of it in less time than they could logically think through the process. But this is really just a form of learned and internalised knowledge.

We wouldn't say that because he can understand faster than he can explain that he is not relying on practical knowledge honed and perfected over time.

In the same way we might process thoughts without language, yet these are thoughts we learned and honed via language.

Maybe? But I can say a helluva lot without ever having to speak a word. Over 80% of all communication is body language.

"But what of that? Do we not talk with our eyes, lips, fingers? Love is made and murder done by the wink of an eye or by a single motion of the hand. Even we ourselves do not depend altogether upon speech for our communication with one another."

-Eastman, Charles

 

[VoidCat]

Ah duh. I thought this was obvious. I mean even if you dont count how I think with pictures most the time Deafblind folk exist and they can still think even if born Deafblind.

Of course they may think in tactile sign language but many aren't taught that and probably still are able to think.

 

[Orbit]

Small children think I'm sure, before they are taught language.

 

[Augustus]

Maybe? But I can say a helluva lot without ever having to speak a word. Over 80% of all communication is body language.

That's only when verbal and NVC are incongruent though as to which is more believable.

If we try to communicate with someone who speaks a different language, body language can get us so far, but it's a real hassle and very limiting. I doubt we can even communicate 10% of what would be possible verbally if we spoke the same language in such a situation.

We can certainly say a lot non-verbally, but words open up an exponentially greater world of possibilities to us.

 

[We Never Know]

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

Look at a mime

 

[The Hammer]

That's only when verbal and NVC are incongruent though as to which is more believable.

If we try to communicate with someone who speaks a different language, body language can get us so far, but it's a real hassle and very limiting. I doubt we can even communicate 10% of what would be possible verbally if we spoke the same language in such a situation.

We can certainly say a lot non-verbally, but words open up an exponentially greater world of possibilities to us.

"but, even so, do we not convey the strongest meaning without a sound or a word? In all our speeches what is most important may be expressed by a silence, a look, or a gesture—even by the attitude of the body.... Once I saw a beaver... send her whole family to the opposite side of the pond when she was about to fell a large tree. One of the young ones was disobedient and insisted upon following the mother to her work, and he was roundly rebuked. The little fellow was chased back to the pond, and when he dove down the mother dove after him. They both came out near the shore on the opposite side. There she emphatically slapped the water with her tail and dove back again. I understood her wishes well, although I am not a beaver." -Eastman

 

[Augustus]

Look at a mime

True dat.

When I see a mime, I think of all the ways I wish god would righteously smite them far more quickly than I could ever articulate these

 

[Augustus]

"but, even so, do we not convey the strongest meaning without a sound or a word? In all our speeches what is most important may be expressed by a silence, a look, or a gesture—even by the attitude of the body.... Once I saw a beaver... send her whole family to the opposite side of the pond when she was about to fell a large tree. One of the young ones was disobedient and insisted upon following the mother to her work, and he was roundly rebuked. The little fellow was chased back to the pond, and when he dove down the mother dove after him. They both came out near the shore on the opposite side. There she emphatically slapped the water with her tail and dove back again. I understood her wishes well, although I am not a beaver." -Eastman

You couldn't tell me that story without words

 

[VoidCat]

You couldn't tell me that story without words

He might not but i could.

Using pictures.

I'm a partly verbal person. Sometimes I can't speak. You are correct in saying words open up worlds. But a lot can be said without saying anything and I have communicated stories more complex then that without speaking.

It's not as easy as words and some things can't be communicated without words but that story is doable.

 

[The Hammer]

You couldn't tell me that story without words

Not through the internet no. But as @RayofLight said. Pictures are just as useful.

Like ochre paintings on stone walls. We've told stories forever.

 

[VoidCat]

Not through the internet no. But as @RayofLight said. Pictures are just as useful.

Like ochre paintings on stone walls. We've told stories forever.

In person with that story I likely would use more then just pictures. I'd also would use my stuff animals and a bit of charades. But yes. That story is doable abett a bit difficult to get across without words

Edit:
And can be communicated with a camera on the internet but very likely to be misunderstood

 

[MikeF]

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

Curious as to what you find to be significant about language not being required for thought.

 

[The Hammer]

Curious as to what you find to be significant about language not being required for thought.

It proves that through and through it isn't the written language that makes us truly Human.

It's our ability to recognize another's inner reality, through empathy.

Emotion is what rules thought.

 

[MikeF]

It proves that through and through it isn't the written language that makes us truly Human.

It's our ability to recognize another's inner reality, through empathy.

Emotion is what rules thought.

I would think all of the many characteristics and properties we exhibit together is what defines is as human.

I find it interesting that you jump from the idea that we can think without words to the idea that all thought is emotion. That would make thought and emotion synonyms. I'm not suggesting that we are not emotional creatures and that we may react emotionally more often than not, but I think thought encompasses more than just emotion.
I would even posit that emotions are expressions of instinctual behaviour and are less about thought and more pre-programmed responses.

 

[The Hammer]

I would think all of the many characteristics and properties we exhibit together is what defines is as human.

I find it interesting that you jump from the idea that we can think without words to the idea that all thought is emotion. That would make thought and emotion synonyms. I'm not suggesting that we are not emotional creatures and that we may react emotionally more often than not, but I think thought encompasses more than just emotion.
I would even posit that emotions are expressions of instinctual behaviour and are less about thought and more pre-programmed responses.

This would be correct for the fully realized person. But most do not get that far, a d therefore they are ruled by emotion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Maybe? But I can say a helluva lot without ever having to speak a word. Over 80% of all communication is body language.

"But what of that? Do we not talk with our eyes, lips, fingers? Love is made and murder done by the wink of an eye or by a single motion of the hand. Even we ourselves do not depend altogether upon speech for our communication with one another."

-Eastman, Charles

Well, try being autistic.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

This is a short video (I hope) giving a quick rundown of why language is not required for thought to happen.

Well, yes, but to express that requires language.