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Featured Those contradicting Gospels!

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by oldbadger, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Why are there so many contradictions in the gospel stories?
    I'll try to post up one exhibit each day.
    If any can explain these differences then that would be interesting.

    Contadiction One:
    In G-Mark Jesus had not started his mission nor had a single disciple with him when the Baptist was put in prison.

    In G-John Jesus had found his disciples, performed miracles in Cana, stayed in Capernaum with his Mother, visited the Temple and caused a big rumpus, returned to Aenon where he was baptising near the Baptist .... who had not been arrested yet.....!!

    That's a wholly different story......
    How?


    Exhibits:-
    Mark {1:14} Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, ............... {1:16} Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. {1:17} And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.


    John{2:1} And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

    John{2:12} After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days.

    John {2:13} And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem............

    John 3:22} After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. {3:23} And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. {3:24} For John was not yet cast into prison.
     
  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    You were and investigator OB, how many witness stories offer the same perspective?

    Record the stories many years later and how much would they differ!

    In the end, what is recorded is sure testimony to who Jesus the Christ was and still Is.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Why would that be true?
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The OP notes, not a difference in perspective, but a difference in facts.
     
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  5. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi Tony.....
    You think that commercial detectives splice bad statements together? Have you ever faced a deadly barrister, Tony?

    Maybe you would like to put those few happenings in to one smooth timeline?

    I would have difficulty with that, but it might run something like. Jesus met John, got baptised, John got put in prison, Jesus got clear and legged it in to the desert for 40 days, then Jesus met Cephas etc, went to a wedding, spent some days with his Mum in Capernaum, popped off to the Temple (Jerusalem!) on his own where he caused no end of a riot, somehow got away (past hundreds of priests and thousands of Temple guards), discovered that John had escaped from nick so found some more disciples and another bloke also called Cephas and went to Aenon where his friends were baptising not far from John.....

    ......... something like that?
    Thing is, how on Earth didn't Mark know about Cana, Capernaum long weekend, Temple riot (og yes!), ..?

    ...or, how didn't John know about Jesus getting baptised and staying until John's arrest, and 40 days spent legging it in to the wilderness?

    You see, Tony, God would know all this in one easy clear simple timeline...... I just don't get how God would let these guys, particularly Apostle John, get this all so mixed up.

    Oh well.....
    Contradiction Number Two Tomorrow folks....... this is going to go on for a bit, I'm afraid.
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Different authors?
    Different experiences?
    Different interpretations?
    Different translations?
    Many don't know the original languages of the bible (which includes cultural knowledge rather than just linguistic)-too much dependency on correspondences.

    I'd say if I looked at contradictions it would more be in the message(s) the bible tries to convey as a whole rather than cross-referencing events and sayings that may or may not align with each other but has no important significance on its own.
     
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  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    These may be contradictions if one considers the text of the gospels literal testimony of the events surrounding the life of Jesus, and of course this is an untenable view.

    The gospels represent an evolved testimony that later evolved into text from different personal perspectives, just as today that not all personal testimony of events.
     
  8. Mike.Hester

    Mike.Hester Member

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    The women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples (Matthew 28:8).

    When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others (Luke 24:9).

    Mark has a different ending.

    Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid. (Mark 16:8)
     
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  9. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly how we would expect theologies to appear; different from one another, so kind of a moot point.
     
  10. Mike.Hester

    Mike.Hester Member

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    Only an apologist would say that.
     
  11. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    There are two groups that take scripture, especially the Bible literally: believers who are willfully blind about the contradictions and literalist non-believers who attack the literalist believers.

    As for me, I'm painfully aware that my wife and I don't agree sometimes on what happened a month ago so I'm surprised if any of what is in the Bible gets verified by archeology as some has.

    And my beliefs are not from what I've read in books but from the song in my heart which is beyond books.
     
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  12. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    For which they must apologize.
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    There are more than two groups in disputes over the Bible are far more diverse than the simplistic believers versus non-believers. There are many diverse conflicting churches that demonstrate this.

    The Bible by it's nature is set in history, and not history. There will, of course, be historical facts and people in the Bible, but nonetheless the traditional Christian beliefs are justified by faith and not history. The Gospels and letters do indeed consider the Bible itself to a degree a literal history

    Beliefs are by their nature beyond books, but often grounded in books and traditions..
     
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  14. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    There are no contradictions per se. When the unknown authors of Matthew and Luke copied gMark they made changes for theological purposes, none of which have anything to do with writing an historical account. Best to look elsewhere for historical accounts.
     
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    Firstly as for the human aspect, Frame of Reference, Inattentional Blindness, both combined with nature and Nurture, show we all have a different way of seeing the same thing.

    I also see God would not allow the corruption of text to an extent that man was left unguided, that would break the God given Covenant that man will not be left alone without guidance.

    As such it is up to us to read each scripture and gain what spiritual lessons we can from them, their pupose is for us to progress in spiritual capacity. They are not a history lesson, that's my opinion.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    I see the stories tell of spiritual truths for us to consider, spiritual lessons and not a historical timeline.

    Each person explained that spiritual lesson in a way they could. As such they differ, but still point us to the same concept being conveyed.

    A consideration and a really good example in recent history is the Martydom of the Bab. The records of that event were from eye witness accounts and people recalling eye witness accounts and they differ considerably.

    In the end we have the story that will carry on into the future and its purpose is to show that no man can silence a Messenger of God, until they choose to go and that they have full control over the event, that their life is not terminated by the death of the flesh.

    That to me is the Bible, stories how to come to know and Love Christ and live the life asked of us. Submission unto God's Will for humanity.

    I will most likely leave it there, I need not convince any person differently as to how they see it.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    IK...... if you think so.
    So it is reasonable that in one account Jesus meets his disciples, does a wedding, has a break in Capernaum, travels (alone) to Jerusalem to cause a rumpus in the Temple and then hoes to meet with his disciples and the Baptist's group at Aenon (who is still free).
    In the others Jesus just meets the Baptist, is baptised, goes out in to the wastelands for forty days and then goes to build his team.
    Just a translational, cultural interpretation?

    OK......
     
  18. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Well let's not bother with that, then. Let's look for the tenable, maybe?

    Does this mean that as time went on the truth was thrown aside in favour of some preferred story?
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    There are a number of different tenable views that take into consider the known accounts concerning the gospels in history.

    First, 'Truth' is beyond the grasp of fallible human belief. How can a 'Truth' be thrown aside when the 'Truth' is unknown? Second, 'preferred story?' is the basic orthodox Christian beliefs that are based on the New Testament, and the evolved doctrine and dogma of the churches. This view has too many problematic issues in history to be the 'Truth?' nor the 'preferred story?"

    There is a basic biography of Jesus that is reasonably established historically, but beyond this the New Testament is set in history and not literally history. The New Testament describes the Bible including Genesis in the form of a literal history, which is untenable as a support of a belief system in the contemporary world. This represents the vast contradictions in the Old and New Testament.
     
    #19 shunyadragon, Jul 4, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    It could be any I listed. It's not by one author and most don't even know the languages and cultures of the Gospel. Some take it literally and others do not. But how is this important to the Bible's overall message? Does it change it?
     
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