This will shake some people to their core...

[TransmutingSoul]

Thank you for sharing this video I will be watching it

I have watched it a few times, it tells the story well.

It is a long movie, you will need good beverages and much popcorn

Regards Tony

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have watched it a few times, it tells the story well.

It is a long movie, you will need good beverages and much popcorn

Regards Tony

When a movie has the good content it is never to long.
I have a good cup of coffee and some biscuit and all will be good.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You lump all of us in the same basket yet Quran praises a certain group that do fight, saying, were it not for God repelling some men by some men, not a Masjid, Church or Synagogue would remain standing.

Without resistance, Satan will have his way and there will be as Quran says "if you don't do it, there will be in the land tribulation and great corruption/mischief".

Those verses in my understanding was for the time when the Prophet was among people to reveal the Quran and establish Religion. For that reason, He was given permission to fight, as it was necessary. But after the Religion was completed and Quran was fully revealed, and the mission was accomplished, no need to fight. The Quran is here, the Hadithes are available and anyone who wishes to learn them, will. There is no compulsion in religion.

Defending ourself against invaders is a right that everyone has, and is not specific to Religion.

But to extend the events at the time of Prophet to our time, and claiming to continue is nothing but for the sake of power. No need to do it, as the Religion was already competed.

 

[Link]

Those verses in my understanding was for the time when the Prophet was among people to reveal the Quran and establish Religion. For that reason, He was given permission to fight, as it was necessary. But after the Religion was completed and Quran was fully revealed, and the mission was accomplished, no need to fight. The Quran is here, the Hadithes are available and anyone who wishes to learn them, will. There is no compulsion in religion.

Defending ourself against invaders is a right that everyone has, and is not specific to Religion.

But to extend the events at the time of Prophet to our time, and claiming to continue is nothing but for the sake of power. No need to do it, as the Religion was already competed.

I guess Imam Hassan was wrong for quoting such verses to apply to himself.

 

[Clara Tea]

As you guys know, I am trying to be a sufi who find peaceful ways in life, even I might have a spike of anger now and then, so in my search I found this.
An I hope I will explain a bit about the teaching, but don't worry I have no need to do proselytizing. This thread hopefully will give answer to why extremism is wrong and that in the text when it say "kill others" it is not the non Muslims, but terrorists them self.

What is your thoughts after reading it?

Yet the extremists trying to kill Muslims in Mecca pursued the Muslims to kill them in Medina. And now – finally – the Quran addressed fighting for the first time, permitting Muslims to fight in self-defence. The permission given in Quran 22:40-41 to fight was only given to “those against whom war is waged.” And fighting wasn’t just to defend Muslims from persecution – but to defend Christians, Jews, and people of all faiths. All subsequent verses addressing fighting are pre-conditioned on these clearly outlined rules of self-defense. Otherwise, it’s cherry picking, something the Quran forbids as perverse.

Additionally, Quran 2:193-194 declares that Muslims may only fight active combatants. Meaning, even if during battle an enemy combatant asks for amnesty, you must grant it. In Islam, there’s no such thing as “collateral damage,” mutilation, or torture. All this notwithstanding, fact three issues the death blow to Daesh and Islamophobe ideology.

You might now understand who the Quran refers to when it says “kill them where you find them”. The “them” are those terrorists who persecuted people for their faith, exiled them from their homes and then pursued to kill innocent people in their new homes.

Show this to anyone who believes the Quran teaches violence


And to those who think this an attack on Islam: no it is not, it is to explain that basic Islam is not extreme and harmful to others.

We must pray for those who accuse Muslims of violence. They present evidence (destruction of the World Trade Center, and various terrorist attacks in Israel and around the world), but, there are writers who say bad things about them, such as Solmon Rushdie, who wrote Satanic Verses.

The Muslim religion (regardless of instructions in their holy scriptures), is a religion of peace, and most Muslims are peaceful. Anyone claiming that they are violent shall have a Mafia-style assassination. This Mafia-style assassination is called a Fatwa, and a Fatwa was issued against Solmon Rushdie, who has remained in hiding.

 

[Segev Moran]

As you guys know, I am trying to be a sufi who find peaceful ways in life, even I might have a spike of anger now and then, so in my search I found this.
An I hope I will explain a bit about the teaching, but don't worry I have no need to do proselytizing. This thread hopefully will give answer to why extremism is wrong and that in the text when it say "kill others" it is not the non Muslims, but terrorists them self.

What is your thoughts after reading it?

Yet the extremists trying to kill Muslims in Mecca pursued the Muslims to kill them in Medina. And now – finally – the Quran addressed fighting for the first time, permitting Muslims to fight in self-defence. The permission given in Quran 22:40-41 to fight was only given to “those against whom war is waged.” And fighting wasn’t just to defend Muslims from persecution – but to defend Christians, Jews, and people of all faiths. All subsequent verses addressing fighting are pre-conditioned on these clearly outlined rules of self-defense. Otherwise, it’s cherry picking, something the Quran forbids as perverse.

Additionally, Quran 2:193-194 declares that Muslims may only fight active combatants. Meaning, even if during battle an enemy combatant asks for amnesty, you must grant it. In Islam, there’s no such thing as “collateral damage,” mutilation, or torture. All this notwithstanding, fact three issues the death blow to Daesh and Islamophobe ideology.

You might now understand who the Quran refers to when it says “kill them where you find them”. The “them” are those terrorists who persecuted people for their faith, exiled them from their homes and then pursued to kill innocent people in their new homes.

Show this to anyone who believes the Quran teaches violence


And to those who think this an attack on Islam: no it is not, it is to explain that basic Islam is not extreme and harmful to others.

So important!
I wish all Muslims, Christians, and Jews will all have a better understanding of their scriptures.
This will greatly help eliminate the power radical leaders have over people.

 

[KWED]

As you guys know, I am trying to be a sufi who find peaceful ways in life, even I might have a spike of anger now and then, so in my search I found this.
An I hope I will explain a bit about the teaching, but don't worry I have no need to do proselytizing. This thread hopefully will give answer to why extremism is wrong and that in the text when it say "kill others" it is not the non Muslims, but terrorists them self.

What is your thoughts after reading it?

Yet the extremists trying to kill Muslims in Mecca pursued the Muslims to kill them in Medina. And now – finally – the Quran addressed fighting for the first time, permitting Muslims to fight in self-defence. The permission given in Quran 22:40-41 to fight was only given to “those against whom war is waged.” And fighting wasn’t just to defend Muslims from persecution – but to defend Christians, Jews, and people of all faiths. All subsequent verses addressing fighting are pre-conditioned on these clearly outlined rules of self-defense. Otherwise, it’s cherry picking, something the Quran forbids as perverse.

Additionally, Quran 2:193-194 declares that Muslims may only fight active combatants. Meaning, even if during battle an enemy combatant asks for amnesty, you must grant it. In Islam, there’s no such thing as “collateral damage,” mutilation, or torture. All this notwithstanding, fact three issues the death blow to Daesh and Islamophobe ideology.

You might now understand who the Quran refers to when it says “kill them where you find them”. The “them” are those terrorists who persecuted people for their faith, exiled them from their homes and then pursued to kill innocent people in their new homes.

Show this to anyone who believes the Quran teaches violence


And to those who think this an attack on Islam: no it is not, it is to explain that basic Islam is not extreme and harmful to others.

That is a highly partisan version if Islamic history that isn't even supported by hadith or the earliest histories like Ibn Ishaq.

In short, Muhammad in Mecca was preaching blasphemy and disrespecting the Quraysh gods. They asked him to stop. He refused. Eventually he was forced into exile because he kept causing trouble and the majority didn't like it. In the 10 years that this was happening, one or possibly two Muslims were killed.
After the move to Medina there was no armed conflict between the two sides until Muhammad started raiding Meccan caravans, stealing goods and killing the drivers. Things escalated into a sporadic war. Eventually a peace treaty was signed. Later, when Muhammad had gained more military and political power, he used a small skirmish between two tribes allied to the two sides as an excuse to break the treaty and invade Mecca with a vastly superior army. The Meccan's sent an emissary asking for peace but Muhammad refused to see him.
The "kill them where you find them" passage refers to those Meccans who refused to submit the invaders and convert, and who failed to go into exile in lands not under Muhammad's control.

If your country was invaded and you continued to fight against them even after most people has capitulated - would you expect to be called a "terrorist", or "the resistance"?
Maybe ask some elderly French people?

For a better picture, read Ibn Ishaq's "Sirat Rasul Allah", and Hodgson's "The Venture of Islam".

 

[KWED]

The Arab Golden Age occurred when the various tribes united, under a single religion. But this was lost when their innate, primitive tribalism again reëmerged. Their solidarity split into loyalty -- to family, tribe and the artificial 'turfs' we call countries.
Loyalty to person or group is always problematic. Loyalty should be to principle only.

If we're ever going to achieve peace and prosperity in the world, we must stop coveting the wealth of others or exploiting them, or supporting those persons and organizations who do. We must abandon differential moral obligation and treat everyone as brothers, just as the Abrahamic holy books seem to recommend (in some parts. ).

...end of rant.

The "Golden Age of Islam" was due in no small part to the Arab expansion into Persia where there was a long tradition of learning and enquiry and the beginnings of science, continuing from the Greeks and Romans.

 

[SA Huguenot]

As you guys know, I am trying to be a sufi who find peaceful ways in life, even I might have a spike of anger now and then, so in my search I found this.
An I hope I will explain a bit about the teaching, but don't worry I have no need to do proselytizing. This thread hopefully will give answer to why extremism is wrong and that in the text when it say "kill others" it is not the non Muslims, but terrorists them self.

What is your thoughts after reading it?

Yet the extremists trying to kill Muslims in Mecca pursued the Muslims to kill them in Medina. And now – finally – the Quran addressed fighting for the first time, permitting Muslims to fight in self-defence. The permission given in Quran 22:40-41 to fight was only given to “those against whom war is waged.” And fighting wasn’t just to defend Muslims from persecution – but to defend Christians, Jews, and people of all faiths. All subsequent verses addressing fighting are pre-conditioned on these clearly outlined rules of self-defense. Otherwise, it’s cherry picking, something the Quran forbids as perverse.

Additionally, Quran 2:193-194 declares that Muslims may only fight active combatants. Meaning, even if during battle an enemy combatant asks for amnesty, you must grant it. In Islam, there’s no such thing as “collateral damage,” mutilation, or torture. All this notwithstanding, fact three issues the death blow to Daesh and Islamophobe ideology.

You might now understand who the Quran refers to when it says “kill them where you find them”. The “them” are those terrorists who persecuted people for their faith, exiled them from their homes and then pursued to kill innocent people in their new homes.

Show this to anyone who believes the Quran teaches violence


And to those who think this an attack on Islam: no it is not, it is to explain that basic Islam is not extreme and harmful to others.

The Problem is not so much in the Quran.
The instructions to kill non muslims can be interperated both to act as an agressor to fight in the cause of Allah, or to act in self defence.

Very devote Muslim clerics will not follow the Quran alone, BUT THEY WILL INTERPERATE THE QURAN CONSULTING THE HADITH!

And this is where the problem with Islam starts... Muhammads collective words that instructs Muslims to wage war against all non muslims and Jews, untill only Islam remains.

This is the only reason why Islam is a terror religion.
The Hadith makes it very clear that Muslims must warn non Muslims about the day of judgement, and if the non Muslim do not accept Islam as the one true religion, they should not complain if a Jihad is waged against them.
And what does the words: "Fight in the cause of Allah" means.
Fight all those that critisize Islam, Muhammad, or the Quran.

In no short terms are Muslims assured of paradise if they kill anyone critisizing any of these 3 topics.
And Muslims are so devoted to the instructions of Muhammad, that they realy think if killing non Muslims are the correct thing to do, they are gaining Allah's favour.

Muhammad realy manipulated his "Revelations" to ensure that Islam will expand with the sword, massacres, enslavement, and looting.

 

[SalixIncendium]

1. Where did they say "westerners" are terrorists? Thats a very general statement. Please quote them directly.

Bin Laden, who was associated with the Taliban and the founder of Al-Qaeda may not have said that westerners were terrorists, but he was an anti-western jihadist who called for the killing of Americans everywhere.

At this point, do quotes really matter?

2. You cannot do anachronism. Its a fallacy.

You cannot accuse someone of doing anachronisms that isn't doing anachronisms. It's a fallacy.

 

[firedragon]

Bin Laden, who was associated with the Taliban and the founder of Al-Qaeda may not have said that westerners were terrorists, but he was an anti-western jihadist who called for the killing of Americans everywhere.

At this point, do quotes really matter?

You conceded your initial statement. Not bad.

You cannot accuse someone of doing anachronisms that isn't doing anachronisms. It's a fallacy.

It is. You cannot define some "group of people" the OP referred to from the understanding of a word in the 21st century. Thats a fallacy. You have to clarify what was meant 1400 years ago first. Hope you understand.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It is. You cannot define some "group of people" the OP referred to from the understanding of a word in the 21st century. Thats a fallacy. You have to clarify what was meant 1400 years ago first. Hope you understand.

I'm afraid you've lost me. Which "group of people" are you referring to? Which word are you talking about?