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This is the bit that got David Chappelle in a bit of trouble:

Discussion in 'Sexuality' started by Subduction Zone, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    And I think that’s why I’m not so anti Chapelle as some after this “scandal.”
    There does seem to be room for him to grow. And he actually seems to acknowledge this. He knows there’s a blind spot for him and he doesn’t quite understand. His willingness to use correct pronouns show, imo, he can probably become an ally in the future. But I fear he will only shut down if he’s “cancelled.” Sometimes it’s better to build people up than to tear them down, so to speak. Let people stumble and if they’re willing and able to do better. Give them that chance. Otherwise you just create an enemy needlessly
     
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  2. Lain

    Lain An Intervallic Time Traveler

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    Interesting article, although the only real difference it mentions out of the two is the suspected biological basis. I thought feeling dysphoria or having such things be necessary to be really transgender was rejected as transmedicalism? So ultimately shouldn't it be irrelevant? If that's true then the only difference is the social treatment, but I don't think people would want to negate identities based on if there is a different in social treatment.
     
  3. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    There's this article too:
    https://theconversation.com/no-you-...sracial-but-you-can-affirm-your-gender-163729

    Gender is our internal sense of self, whether that be man, woman, neither or both.

    Most people have an idea about their gender at two to three years old — this may not align with the sex assigned to them at birth.

    Unlike gender, race presents as categorised (often physical) traits that are socially constructed and understood. You can’t inherit your gender, this is internal and something individual to you — but you do inherit the social construct of race. There is also much more to one’s racial identity than physical appearance — it’s also about culture, community, connection and even trauma [...]
    People who face discrimination based on their race or cultural background can usually go home to members of their family who understand them. This is often not the case for trans and gender diverse people.

    Race and gender have very different histories, understandings, experiences, and implications in the face of discrimination. The very idea of being able to transition to a difference race discredits trans and gender diverse people’s experiences of gender affirmation. It also undermines the importance of cultural connections for many communities.


    To be honest I don't know a lot about transracial folk. I do know this: transgender people are valid regardless of physical dysphoria or not. Also edvidence backs transgender people. Evidence doesn't seem to back transracials folk. I have thoughts on it I dont think transracials is valid but I can't figure out how to put my thoughts together enough to explain my views. Maybe someone else can explain why it's different I just can't put my thoughts together well.
     
  4. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    I will add gender doesn't equal sex. Biological traits may be associated with sex but gender is not sex. Some cultures don't even associate gender with physical traits at all. Race is a physical trait. It cannot be changed.
     
  5. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    Heres examples of such cultures...from https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Gender_designation_in_different_cultures

    The Dayak are a farming community in West Borneo. When anthropologist Christine Helliwell visited, she described how the community did not know how to define her gender, "despite her female body."[1] She writes: "Gerai people remained very uncertain about my gender for some time after I arrived in the community... This was despite the fact that people in the community knew from my first few days with them both that I had breasts (this was obvious when the sarong that I worse clung to my body while I bathed in the river) and that I have a vulva rather than a penis and testicles (this was obvious from my trips to defecate or urinate in the small stream used for that purpose, when literally dozens of people would line the banks to observe whether I performed these functions differently from them). As someone said to me at a later point, 'Yes, I saw that you had a vulva, but I thought that Western men might be different.'"[1]

    The Dayak associate expertise, not sex, with being a man or woman. To them,"[a] 'woman' is a person who knows how to distinguish types of rice, store them correctly, and choose among them for different uses."[1] As Helliwell learned more about rice, "she became 'more and more of a woman' in their eyes."[1] Her gender still remained ambiguous, however, because she never gained the expertise of even a girl in the community.

    The Hau are a community in New Guinea. To them, masculinity and femininity wax and wane as someone ages. Children are not born as men or women and are not recognized as such until puberty. From then on, each son a woman bears increases her masculinity and each son a father sires decreases his masculinity. By the time Hau become elders, they are once again genderless.[1

    The Lovedu are a community in Zambia. They assign gender by social status instead of biological sex. Higher ranking people are considered men. A high-ranking female could even marry a young, lower-ranking woman and be considered the father of their children. The biological father in this case would be one of the lower-ranking women's lovers

    My point is transgender is a social identity. There may be biological edvience for why one may be trans but it's a cultural thing due to it being gender which is based on how you feel not your body not sex which is a social construct based physical traits. But race is a physical trait. A construct yes but based physical traits
     
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  6. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    I have no clue how to word this but:race is also a culture. You can't change being a black person and the culture you grew in to white or vise versa. These folks are approprating a culture.
     
  7. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Retired Ruler
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    In general, I think this is often true. However, sometimes a person just doesn't 'blend' with their 'racial culture', and can face discrimination when they choose to just be themselves.

    My best friend growing up was Black, and got a heap of criticism because she didn't act 'black' enough. She wore goth clothes, and listened to heavy metal, and she was frequently bullied by other Black people over it. I don't believe a person should ever have to hide/adjust their tastes, preferences, or worldviews because it doesn't match the typical behaviors/tastes of people who may share their skin tone.
     
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  8. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    I mean race is associated with an ethnicity which is not the same thing. Ethnicity = cultural expression. Race- physical traits associated with ethnicity. So since both are often connected these transracials often appropriate a culture. But you are corract
     
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  9. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Retired Ruler
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    I do feel there's a fine line between appropriation and appreciation. Appropriation seems to occur when a person takes something from another culture without respecting its roots, or being aware of the significance of the item/ideal that they're taking on. Appreciation occurs when a person immerses themselves in another culture because they connect with it on a deep level. Appreciation goes deeper than just a surface appearance, in my opinion.
     
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  10. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    Yes indeed
     
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  11. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    There are people already making inroads with race dysphoria along the same lines.



    I agree with Whoopi Goldberg on this.
     
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  12. RayofLight

    RayofLight My pronouns: they/them

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    Technically transracial used to be a term for a white person being adopted by black folk or vise versa. I find it a crazy thing she's adopted the term
     
  13. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's the modern world these days. Who's to say she's wrong? A black woman in a white body.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    The transracial thing appears to have no physiological explanations. Someone who is transgender, however, does evidence of a physiological explanation to stand on.
     
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  15. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    Dave Chappelle is great
     
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