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This doesn't sit well with me...

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Ciscokid, Oct 19, 2006.

  1. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    I basing my comments on the facts I have available. If someone would like to update the facts go ahead and then I'll update my opinion.

    "Bleeding heart" is an insult. Cisokid and I recognize the difference between compasson and a bleeding heart. Are you implying we're without compassion? How about the compassion we have for those who may be hurt or put in danger or even killed because of sissy's cowardice?
     
  2. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Hogwash. I made no assumption about you except the one I specifically list below.

    The only reference to *you* was in whether *you* were involved.

    Are you doing combat duty in Iraq? I thought you were in the states. Was I mistaken? If I am, then my assumption was indeed unwarranted.

    You should have a close look at your own assumptions before you complain about the ones I don't have.

    If you write a post that says:

    ...in the presence of anyone who lived during Vietnam, then you had better be prepared to deal with what comes of writing something like that.

    I heard what you said from our leaders for years. I thought it was unconscionable then, and I still do.

    Your mileage may vary.
     
  3. Booko

    Booko Deviled Hen

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    Maybe facts:

    1. Guy ditches driving test intentionally
    2. Guy otherwise does combat duty driving around Iraq (maybe, maybe not)
    3. Guy has family to support back home

    Is it deceitful? Hm, looks like it. Is it especially brave? No. Does it mean some other schmo will take the place that chance would've left to him? Possibly, and not nice if so.

    And it's also quite possible that Guy decides being there for his family is higher priority than dying for some other fool's unjust war that has nothing to do with protecting this country.

    Men in 'Nam did this sort of thing with some frequency.

    Even combat vets would avoid stupid things that would get them killed unnecessarily.

    And for Heaven's sake, did anyone here think "frag" is a term that comes from videogames? It comes from 'Nam. That anyone would shoot their own officer to prevent the rest of the group from getting killed just goes to show how crazy and stupid the whole thing was.

    You should sit around a table for days and play more wargames with these guys. It's worth it just for the living history.

    And since, unlike all of them, I've never been in combat in an unjust war, or even a just one, I'm hardly in a position to provide kneejerk condemnation just because someone else has their knickers in a twist over it.

    Let the Army handle its own.

    I can see exactly one (1) person who may be put in danger or killed because of this person's actions. That is the person who will be driving the humvee instead of him. Assuming they would have gone through with actually assigning him that duty had he passed, which considering the way the Army works, is not a sure thing.

    Where are all those people who are going to die or be in danger because he flunked a driving test?
     
  4. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

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    Um... no. :areyoucra Are you just looking to be insulted where no insult was intended?

    All I was saying is that I don't find "bleeding heart" to be an insult. So you can just keep calling me that if you want; fine by me. [​IMG]
     
  5. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    posters are continually make assumptions about me so I will no longer be participating in this thread.
     
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  6. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    MOD ADVISORY

    Please remember that the topic of the thread is the original, "This doesn't sit well with me" post. In a heated issue such as this, it's sometimes hard to remember not to to get into the habit of discussing each others' character traits and personalities, but doing so can very easily lead into personal attacks. Again, please limit yourself to debate on the original post.
     
  7. Ciscokid

    Ciscokid Well-Known Member

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    It's not compassion, it's wimpification...and no it shouldn't be encouraged.
     
  8. Ciscokid

    Ciscokid Well-Known Member

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    My main point is, if you're going to sign up for the military...then you should do your job even if doing your job may get you killed.

    I think the football analogy does a good job. Don't sign up for football if you don't wanna get hurt. When the coach asks you to go in and run the football...don't hold your ankle and say "I can't coach I twisted it in pregame warm up".
     
  9. Ulver

    Ulver Active Member

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    When you know the ship is sinking it's a good idea to get a hold of a life-vest, don't ya think?

    Iraq is beyond screwed up right now. I say anyone who puts themselves and the ones they love above following protocol is a bit more in the right. Screw politics.
     
  10. DTrent

    DTrent Member

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    It would probably make more sense for him to just be a 'conscientious objector', no?
    That way, he wouldn't have to worry about going to ANY war.
    Anyway, don't most people join the military for the schooling benefits & the travel?
    That seems to be the reasons they advertise to high school kids. "See the world, get a good education & be all that you can be!"
    They don't advertise what happens if you see action & come back with no arms/legs or mind left!
     
  11. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    Again, it's not necessary to advertise that joining the military may lead to being involved in a war and it's certainly not necessary to advertise that going to war may cause the loss of life and/or limbs. This is plain common sense. People's motivations in joining the military are really quite irrelevant. The military is what it is. If you join, you join at your own risk.
     
  12. Ciscokid

    Ciscokid Well-Known Member

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    Right, if they have to draw pictures for people to get them to foresee that they may be signing up for a very dangerous job then they probably don't want them in the first place.
     
  13. Gentoo

    Gentoo The Feisty Penguin

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    On one hand, I don't think the person in question did what was right, he basically lied about his abilities. But I also don't think it's right to call someone, anyone for that matter, a sissy. We don't know exactly what was going on in this guy's head, and we can't know unless someone out there is a not only a mind-reader, but can go back in time to do it.

    I don't agree with this young man's actions, but I don't agree with pointing fingers and name-calling either.
     
  14. Ulver

    Ulver Active Member

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    Hmm.... why would that person be poor or unable to affoard education in the first place? Oh, that's right, our current government looks down on Social Benefits. Like taking a little chunk off of Military spending and actually helping people. Yea, I guess that's a dumb idea, huh. I suppose it's better to live life in a rat race that's prettied up by Christian morality lace, to shade the sun off politicians and holier-then-thou men who bet on which rat will win and which will die. Yep, that sounds nice.
     
  15. Ciscokid

    Ciscokid Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you're into HUGE Governments that tax the hell out of us so that it can supply everyones needs from crib to cradle.

    I'd rather earn it myself and not be taxed so much. I don't need the Government to pay for my education, I can do it myself.

    That's a mentality I wish more people would have.
     
  16. Ulver

    Ulver Active Member

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    It's not a matter of more taxes, it's a matter of less of it going to the military. It's been shown that a small chunk of the military's spending could pay for quite a bit of this nation's social benefits.

    Also I don't buy the whole, overcoming your social place to gain what you have story. Institutions have more power then you give credit. A small few get lucky enough, but that fairytale doesn't come true for everyone.

    Balance is the key. The problem is there isn't a balance in our government's budget.
     
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  17. Ciscokid

    Ciscokid Well-Known Member

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    I agree about the military. We spend WAY too much money on that. I'm sickened by the thought of how much money we've spent on the Iraq war.

    Are we selling war bonds yet?
     
  18. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Which is easier? Telling your sister that you had failed it on purpose or telling her that you couldn't pass a simple driving test? Quite often we will fabricate alternate realities which help to make us look better in the eyes of others. Just think of Shrub and his infamous WMDs. No one really buys that as the reason we invaded Iraq do they?
     
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