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THINKERS vs MEDITATORS
- Thread starter zenzero
- Start date
elmarna
Well-Known Member
Meditation is clearing your mind and "listening".
It is letting that outside being able to be received, the vibrations and energy translated by the body from the effect of outside forces.
"Thinkers" are turning inside and concentrateing on the internal workings of the self with efforts to create a better world for themselves and,or, -others.
In the process of meditation it does not leave out thinking.
Novices may even find themselves listening to thoughts they may have not considered when trying to "empty out " their mind. Thoughts that are formed in deep meditation are the "translation" that occurs and is normaly formed in a way that is far removed or foriegn in the ways of the person meditateing.
Thinkers focus on the knowledge and ways of the self and are only takeing in other ways from outside forces if they have taken it in from the material world around them and considered it wise to "remember" it.
While both avenues can be spiritual. Meditation is more metaphysical or universal.
Thinkers are physical and earthy.
Meditators want to "transcend". Thinkers are forming opinions to impress and hone a formation of feelings to produce a "fit mind".
Both are looking to improve upon. Both are able to use the mind with "focus". They are just different ways. I am not without realizeing that a "thinker" who builds a mechine to "listen" for him in a meditative state can achieve the best of both worlds; just as a meditator can be a thinker in the conscienceness!
It is letting that outside being able to be received, the vibrations and energy translated by the body from the effect of outside forces.
"Thinkers" are turning inside and concentrateing on the internal workings of the self with efforts to create a better world for themselves and,or, -others.
In the process of meditation it does not leave out thinking.
Novices may even find themselves listening to thoughts they may have not considered when trying to "empty out " their mind. Thoughts that are formed in deep meditation are the "translation" that occurs and is normaly formed in a way that is far removed or foriegn in the ways of the person meditateing.
Thinkers focus on the knowledge and ways of the self and are only takeing in other ways from outside forces if they have taken it in from the material world around them and considered it wise to "remember" it.
While both avenues can be spiritual. Meditation is more metaphysical or universal.
Thinkers are physical and earthy.
Meditators want to "transcend". Thinkers are forming opinions to impress and hone a formation of feelings to produce a "fit mind".
Both are looking to improve upon. Both are able to use the mind with "focus". They are just different ways. I am not without realizeing that a "thinker" who builds a mechine to "listen" for him in a meditative state can achieve the best of both worlds; just as a meditator can be a thinker in the conscienceness!
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend elmarna,
Thanking you very much for your response.
Though you have not agreed/disagreed that humans are either in a state of thinking or meditation. Thinking goes on even in sleep and meditation alo happens in sleep.
Personal understanding is that Meditators have no room for 'improving' what is already perfect and that is the state of meditation or oneness.
If you are speaking of the process to reach that state as meditation and describing what goes through the mind, then scope for improvement could always be there. in such a situation then it is correct to state that meditation is thinking consciously; however like to caution that till even a trace of thought remains the state of meditation or oneness alludes the meditator and so not in total oneness.
Friend elarma, would you agree that it is the thinking mind that labels oneself by the path one walks towards the meditative state and not as pure humans who are born perfect in oneness with existence?
Love & rgds
Thanking you very much for your response.
Though you have not agreed/disagreed that humans are either in a state of thinking or meditation. Thinking goes on even in sleep and meditation alo happens in sleep.
Personal understanding is that Meditators have no room for 'improving' what is already perfect and that is the state of meditation or oneness.
If you are speaking of the process to reach that state as meditation and describing what goes through the mind, then scope for improvement could always be there. in such a situation then it is correct to state that meditation is thinking consciously; however like to caution that till even a trace of thought remains the state of meditation or oneness alludes the meditator and so not in total oneness.
Friend elarma, would you agree that it is the thinking mind that labels oneself by the path one walks towards the meditative state and not as pure humans who are born perfect in oneness with existence?
Love & rgds
Last edited:
elmarna
Well-Known Member
When I am with no thought (thinking) and I am "listening" in the openess I achieve a awareness outside my source.
I do not believe it is the first time. I believe that the infant has this inate ability at birth and the mind in it's development of thought and language responds to what is to be more useful in servival.
Since dreaming is the feelings translated into personal imagry of thought I disagree that we meditate in sleep.
In my focus to center myself in inner peace and listen I have had amazing spiritual growth that came to me in the essence of life I had connected to.
. "Oneness" lacks the meaning of the self and while I can not be God or submerge my energy to loose myself I prefer to say I have a relationship like a child willing to listen and support -that which has me engaged and part of life in a good way.
My Openess to respond does not create. It is a doorway opened.
I think my friend our approach on meditation is quite different.
I do not believe it is the first time. I believe that the infant has this inate ability at birth and the mind in it's development of thought and language responds to what is to be more useful in servival.
Since dreaming is the feelings translated into personal imagry of thought I disagree that we meditate in sleep.
In my focus to center myself in inner peace and listen I have had amazing spiritual growth that came to me in the essence of life I had connected to.
. "Oneness" lacks the meaning of the self and while I can not be God or submerge my energy to loose myself I prefer to say I have a relationship like a child willing to listen and support -that which has me engaged and part of life in a good way.
My Openess to respond does not create. It is a doorway opened.
I think my friend our approach on meditation is quite different.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I think...therefore I am.
Take away the thinking...existence goes with it.
(unless you want to be dust, and nothing comes of it)
Empty your mind and heart?...forsake who you are?
You can't actually do that.
You can try not thinking...but it won't last long.
Meditation is an opportunity...a quiet time....to sort through your thoughts and feelings.
Take away the thinking...existence goes with it.
(unless you want to be dust, and nothing comes of it)
Empty your mind and heart?...forsake who you are?
You can't actually do that.
You can try not thinking...but it won't last long.
Meditation is an opportunity...a quiet time....to sort through your thoughts and feelings.
Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Wisdom is the goal of the contemplative path. Separation from ego is the goal of the meditative path.
One who attains separation from ego attains all wisdom as well. One who attains wisdom attains freedom from the imprisonment of ego as well.
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Thief,
Thank you for sharing.
It is for this reason that satori/samadhi is teremed as *twice born* as the actual life of the individual starts from then onwards. When Jesus said *The dead will bury their dead* it is in that context when one is yet to be reborn.
It is for this reason am dividing humans into those who are THINKERS and those who are MEDITATORS!
Love & rgds
Thank you for sharing.
since total stillness of mind/thoughts is not experinced one will obviously say as you do and it is understood.
It is for this reason that satori/samadhi is teremed as *twice born* as the actual life of the individual starts from then onwards. When Jesus said *The dead will bury their dead* it is in that context when one is yet to be reborn.
It is for this reason am dividing humans into those who are THINKERS and those who are MEDITATORS!
Love & rgds
Prophet
breaking the statutes of my local municipality
We make machines which are capable of thought. Awareness of thought is another matter. It has been said, "I think, therefore I am," but this is the Truth in all earnest, You are aware of thought or lack thereof, therefore you are.
Take away the attachment to incessant thought, and you may come face to face with the great You Are.
It seems to me, ZenZero, that meditation and thinking are in some sense two tools. Each has its uses. For instance, it seems impossible to experience the One or oneness through thinking, for thinking is to experience as a map is to its terrain.
On the other hand, meditation is not a good tool for balancing a checkbook. Thought seems to be required for such things.
To be either a meditator or a thinker is to have but one tool in one's toolbox. To be both a meditator and a thinker is to have two tools in one's toolbox.
Is that meditation, Thief? Or is it a form of thinking? It seems to me that sorting through one's thoughts and feelings must be a thoughtful activity, and therefore not so much meditation as thinking. But what do you think?
Isn't dreaming a form of thought? Just curious how you see it.