"They are not even asking the same question."

[Regiomontanus]

I often hear theists claim that cosmology, in particular the Big Bang theory, demonstrates that God exists. Many of my students have shared that view over the years. But IMHO cosmology can only go so far...and not far enough to get to God. This came up the other day while talking with a friend and so I shared the following with her and thought some here would find it of interest.

The short clip is from an interview with David Bentley Hart.

Thoughts?

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

To me, before the Big Bang, there is The Law of eternal creation as "RI" real information that existed before creation was ever created was even created as the Divine Spirit.

Stephen Andrew

 

[Quintessence]

Didn't watch the video (those really are not my thing) but from this polytheist's perspective, cosmogony just isn't a point of interest because the gods are not distinct from nature and reality itself. There's no need to seek something "behind" or "beyond" nature or the universe so cosmogony isn't compelling as proof of disproof either way. I can just look at the world around me and go "yup, there are powers and forces vastly greater than I, and those are the gods" and call it a day.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

It is in the logic we understand.
Simple and easy understand.

To me, before the Big Bang, there is The Law of eternal creation as "RI" real information that existed before creation was ever created was even created as the Divine Spirit.

In logic, all we have to say is: In, through and to:

The Big Bang is creation in disorder, with choice.
Order in Creation in the fulfilled universe is in the information in logic of the divine spirit, transfiguration of the Body, eternal manifestation through infallible wisdom as incorruptible and immortal, some say "sanctified" or "glorified" and transfigured, We become by the logical Fiats, "in" mortal Bodies "through" immortal Bodies and transfigured in re-imaging "to" The Transfigured Shared Body, with no choice of failure.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Regiomontanus]

Didn't watch the video (those really are not my thing) but from this polytheist's perspective, cosmogony just isn't a point of interest because the gods are not distinct from nature and reality itself. There's no need to seek something "behind" or "beyond" nature or the universe so cosmogony isn't compelling as proof of disproof either way. I can just look at the world around me and go "yup, there are powers and forces vastly greater than I, and those are the gods" and call it a day.

I think you still might find the philosophical argument in the short clip interesting

 

[Regiomontanus]

Peace to all,

It is in the logic we understand.
Simple and easy understand.

To me, before the Big Bang, there is The Law of eternal creation as "RI" real information that existed before creation was ever created was even created as the Divine Spirit.

In logic, all we have to say is: In, through and to:

The Big Bang is creation in disorder, with choice.
Order in Creation in the fulfilled universe is in the information in logic of the divine spirit

Well, disorder (in terms of entropy) is higher now than at the time of the BB, but I certainly agree that the holy spirit plays a fundamental role in the universe.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Right. What came before the Big Bang? A void? Was the void always here? Anyway I don’t buy any of that. In my opinion, existence begins when a certain man is born and ends when that man dies, and repeats itself in an endless cycle. Starts around 1980 and ends when he dies, which I don’t really know.

 

[ratiocinator]

Right. What came before the Big Bang?

What makes you think 'before the big bang' even refers to a time?

General relativity tells us that time is an integral part of the universe (the space-time manifold). If the universe (in the sense of all of natural existence) started at the big bang, so would space-time. In short, space-time is a four dimensional object. Even if it is finite in its past, looking there for the reason why it exists makes about as much sense of as looking for why the earth exists at the North Pole.

 

[King Phenomenon]

What makes you think 'before the big bang' even refers to a time?

General relativity tells us that time is an integral part of the universe (the space-time manifold). If the universe (in the sense of all of natural existence) started at the big bang, so would space-time. In short, space-time is a four dimensional object. Even if it is finite in its past, looking there for the reason why it exists makes about as much sense of as looking for why the earth exists at the North Pole.

I keep things simple. You’re getting a little too weird for my taste.

 

[dybmh]

cosmology can only go so far

 

[ratiocinator]

I keep things simple. You’re getting a little too weird for my taste.

The universe is weird. Time is weird. Our intuitive (simple) notions about them are wrong.

Each time you post you are relying on semiconductors in the device you use, the way they work is based on quantum mechanics, which is even more weird than general relativity. If you use GPS you are relying on the weirdness of space-time (the satellites have to compensate for both special and general relativity).

We live in a weird reality, our intuitions are next to useless for the fundamentals - why would it be otherwise?

Sorry.

 

[King Phenomenon]

The universe is weird. Time is weird. Our intuitive (simple) notions about them are wrong.

Each time you post you are relying on semiconductors in the device you use, the way they work is based on quantum mechanics, which is even more weird than general relativity. If you use GPS you are relying on the weirdness of space-time (the satellites have to compensate for both special and general relativity).

We live in a weird reality, our intuitions are next to useless for the fundamentals - why would it be otherwise?

Sorry.

Okee dokee

 

[dybmh]

The universe is weird. Time is weird. Our intuitive (simple) notions about them are wrong.

But, but.... how can something so wrong, feel to so right?

Spoiler: The universe is weird