1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured They Are Not Christians!

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by oldbadger, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,259
    Ratings:
    +6,514
    Religion:
    deist
    Thankyou for that guidance......
    If we would be so fortunate as to be able to visit a Synagogue it would be for exploration and discovery. And if any might ask us why we wish to enter, then we would reply that exploration and discovery takes us to most other places, and could we please come in? And then we would leave the answer to Fate.

    My friend already visits a Unitarian Church, and has been showing signs of wishing to step back just a little, and that has been (partly) the reason for our travels in search of those mugs of tea (and biscuits). But as my Opening Post explains, that has been showing us that some Churches do not recognise others. Some have been quite confrontational, asking us exactly why we have come, and quite often we have been able to remind these unhappy people that they have a board outside offering 'light refreshment and a chat' (whatever) to all visitors at a particular time on a certain day. Some have clearly forgotten about their messages outside because nobody ever responds, I'm guessing.

    I do know that some Rabbis are very very understanding and liberated, in fact a very well known British Rabbi conducted my gentile father's funeral service in January1984, with a very prominent Jewish gentleman in attendance, although that gentleman asked not to be identified.

    One place that I would really like to visit is the Quakers' Meeting House in the heart of the City..... they even let other religions and Faiths borrow or use their premises for meetings. Now that would be a real privilege, to go there. :)
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,695
    Ratings:
    +15,732
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    And exactly how is it that you know they comprised a "majority"? Obviously, you can't possibly know that, so what you have done again is to violate one of the Ten Commandments, namely "Do not bear false witness".
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,059
    Ratings:
    +1,265
    Religion:
    Christian
    I am presently attending a Southern Baptist church in the north. The church across the street is a Four Square church. I wore out my welcome at the Four Square church being the heretic that I am but at least my present church tolerates me up to a point.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,059
    Ratings:
    +1,265
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe God does not like prideful people. There is a difference. What is often thought of as arrogance is simply confidence.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,059
    Ratings:
    +1,265
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the idea that Jews hated Jesus lacks foundation. I don't even think the pharisees who wanted Him killed hated Him. They probably thought they were doing God a service. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,695
    Ratings:
    +15,732
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    I doubt that the vast majority of Jews in eretz Israel knew anything about Jesus or knew enough about him to draw much of a conclusion. Those calling themselves "the Messiah" were basically a shekel-a-dozen back then, so I have doubts that many of them took him seriously. The Sanhedrin and the Temple priests, otoh, would likely take a much stronger interest because they knew that "agitators" could bring the wrath of the Romans down on all of them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    13,409
    Ratings:
    +7,324
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    Metis, what on earth did you teach when you imparted knowledge to your 'theology' students? This demonstrates once again that you did not teach scripture but only church inspired doctrine. How could I possibly know that the majority of Jews would not be saved? I read scripture and I understand Israel's role in the outworking of Jehovah's purpose. Do you?

    Are you familiar with Jesus' illustrations at all? Read Matthew 22:1-14 and ask who were the ones originally "invited" to the marriage feast of the King's son? What did the King do to those who refused to attend? What did he think of their excuses?
    Who is the King in this illustration and who is his son? What is the "marriage"? Who is the bride?

    Read another illustration in Matthew 21:33-41 and ask who Jesus is talking about?What was the outcome for them?

    Isaiah prophesied that only a "remnant" of fleshly Israel would be saved.....which was quoted by the apostle Paul in Romans 9:27-29...

    "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved; 28 for the Lord will execute his sentence upon the earth with rigor and dispatch.” 29 And as Isaiah predicted,

    “If the Lord of hosts had not left us children,
    we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor′rah.” (NRSVCE)


    All through their history, Israel proved themselves unworthy of their choosing, but God kept them in existence until his purpose in connection with them, was fulfilled. By rejecting Jesus as the promised Messiah, they put the seal on their own fate. What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and why was it used in Isaiah's example?

    If only a "remnant" was to be saved....that means that the majority were not. This is what scripture says as opposed to the cherry picking done by the churches.

    When Jesus said...."O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’” (NRSVCE)

    They have never, as a nation, 'blessed the one who came in the name of Yahweh'. Individuals (a remnant) who accepted Jesus as the Christ were included in a new nation, under a new covenant. Paul called them "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) which was not the fleshly nation but the spiritual nation who became disciples of God's son. It included that remnant of faithful Jews and then the Gentiles who made up the 'Kingdom of priests' that Israel should have filled. People of all nations, including Jews have the same choices today, as everyone else. (Acts 10:34-35)

    Please metis, do your homework before you again betray your lack of scriptural knowledge. Read your Bible man! There is obviously so much that you have never seen or been taught. Its so important to know these things because it alters our whole perception of the big picture.....our own choices depend on this knowledge. Its a life or death matter as I see it. Can you understand that? You think that all I am trying to do here is be RIGHT? (*sigh*) I actually care about the truth and I know you do too, so put down the boxing gloves and listen......evaluate the information without the defensive attitude and you will see that we are really on the same side. :(
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,695
    Ratings:
    +15,732
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    When I taught theology I didn't teach my opinion.

    Oh, that's a "classic", so I'll just leave it at that. :D
     
  9. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    5,530
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Sorry to hear that the Unitarian church isn't all he hoped it would be. But that just means the fun of continuing the journey of exploration. Quakers are wonderful people, though you should know that the denomination has gone through major splits, and there are liberal Quakers and evangelical Quakers and they are quite different.

    I'm so glad you've had a positive experience with a Rabbi! I hope you find a good synagogue to visit. Remember that there are toxic shuls out there as well as many spiritually healthy ones, so don't give up if the first Rabbi chases you away.

    Besides, especially in the Orthodox tradition, Rabbis are SUPPOSED to chase people away. That sifts out the uncommitted from those who are truly drawn. So it's kind of their job. LOL quite different from evangelistic mindset, eh? :)

    Sending up my prayers that you find where you are meant to be. If you have any questions regarding Judaism, just start a new thread on that, and I and the others will be happy to help you.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,259
    Ratings:
    +6,514
    Religion:
    deist
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    13,409
    Ratings:
    +7,324
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    I am prompted to ask....did you have one? Did you even agree with what you taught? Have you ever held one opinion about God that never changed?
    Why are you so defensive?

    Classic what? You have addressed nothing. The fact is, the prophets foretold that only a remnant of Israel would be saved.....no comment eh?
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,695
    Ratings:
    +15,732
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Sometimes yes, sometimes no. When you're hired to teach whatever, you teach whatever and not necessarily what you personally believe in. Same when I taught political science as I wasn't hired to teach my political opinions.

    To the last item, no.

    I'm not going to feed your willingness to judge others.

    I'm not, but for some reason you keep reading things into what I post that I don't believe nor feel.
     
  13. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,059
    Ratings:
    +1,265
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe they thought they knew something. He was from Nazareth not from Bethlehem but they just assumed that and never asked Him.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,059
    Ratings:
    +1,265
    Religion:
    Christian
    I like this one for the final invitation: Rev: 22:17 The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    18,059
    Ratings:
    +1,265
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the problem is that they have to accept the sacrifice for sin that Jesus made on the cross. Otherwise they get tossed into outer space. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    33,695
    Ratings:
    +15,732
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    To me, that makes no sense, especially since the Bible says that the Jews were "chosen" and promised that the Covenant would be "forever" and "perpetual". Torah and the Sermon On the Mount both conclude that compassion for God and all people is what's paramount, and that posits more emphasis on whether one believes in God and actually does what God and Jesus taught, and it's not just Christians that do that.
     
  17. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    13,162
    Ratings:
    +4,252
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I am reminded of the Centurion and the Gentile woman, born in Syrian Phoenicia. both received from God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    The Whore of Babylon is Israel, if you read scripture.. If not, you can make up anything.
     
  19. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,876
    Religion:
    Christian
    Actually, no. The whore of babylon has been defined as corrupt government systems, the RC church, and other human and satanic entities. She is prominent in Revelation, therefore is prophecy.

    For a Christian she is defined by the eschatology one embraces and interpretation of prophecy.

    I personally have never heard of Israel defined as such, but there are a myriad of beliefs out there.

    If one is in harmony with God based upon fundamental Christian precepts, prophetic interpretation is not that important.

    We know that time will end, and God will prevail, thatś enough.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    There is NO question that the whore of Babylon is Israel.. The Bible makes that crystal clear. What are you trying to pull?
     
Loading...