These Vaccines Work Really Well

[Duke_Leto]

I almost had my life ruined by psychotropic drugs, but thankfully I discovered homeopathy just in the nick of time.
Nobody is ever going to tell me I need those drugs, because I know better.

TBH I doubt homeopathy does much, but those drugs are evil and I’m glad you’ve found your way off them.

 

[Trailblazer]

TBH I doubt homeopathy does much, but those drugs are evil and I’m glad you’ve found your way off them.

I cannot say what it does for physical diseases, but I know what it does for mental-emotional problems and studies have conformed this.

 

[exchemist]

Feel free to explain or link me to your explanation. But regardless I have difficulty trusting what any pharmaceutical company, or government controlled by pharmaceutical interests says, because I know people who have been killed by them and more who have had their lives ruined by them.

This isn’t because I have preconceived political beliefs. I’m not a conservative. But I’m also not a Democratic partisan and I don’t trust any corporation that has deliberately killed people when liberals tell me to either.

If these vaccines are safe, good. But I’m not going to be first in line to to get them.

It's a bit hard to track down what I wrote previously, but as I understand it they did two big things that are not usual when commercial vaccines are developed.

One was that government, at least in some countries such as the UK, promised from almost the start of the development, to buy large quantities of each vaccine, whether they worked or not. That meant that the manufacturers could invest in production of the vaccines while the clinical trials were still in progress. In the normal course of events they would obviously have to wait for trials to finish successfully and then wait for regulatory approval, before they would spend money on producing them.

The other thing they did was that the regulatory agencies, at least in the UK, did something they never normally do. This was to review the chunks of trial data as they came in, instead of waiting for the whole data set to be completed and then letting it take its place in the queue to be reviewed en bloc.

These measures cut several years out of the "normal" development cycle, without compromising in any way the technical standards that had to be met for approval.

 

[Duke_Leto]

It's a bit hard to track down what I wrote previously, but as I understand it they did two big things that are not usual when commercial vaccines are developed.

One was that government, at least in some countries such as the UK, promised from almost the start of the development, to buy large quantities of each vaccine, whether they worked or not. That meant that the manufacturers could invest in production of the vaccines while the clinical trials were still in progress. In the normal course of events they would obviously have to wait for trials to finish successfully and then wait for regulatory approval, before they would spend money on producing them.

This really doesn't make me feel any better about the safety of these vaccines.

The other thing they did was that the regulatory agencies, at least in the UK, did something they never normally do. This was to review the chunks of trial data as they came in, instead of waiting for the whole data set to be completed and then letting it take its place in the queue to be reviewed en bloc.

Trial data found by whom? Also, it doesn't seem like they were really testing these vaccines for negative effects, especially long-term effects. If, for instance, it made people infertile (I just mention that since it seems to be a popular conspiracy theory) there's no way this could be found.

mRNA technology is, as I understand, fairly experimental. I'm a young and healthy person; I'm pretty confident I won't die of Covid. Relatively untested biotechnology I'm less certain of. Even if it works at reducing Covid transmission I would much rather take my chances with the virus. Others are welcome to test the vaccine if they please; I just don't want to be forced into taking it myself.

 

[exchemist]

This really doesn't make me feel any better about the safety of these vaccines.



Trial data found by whom? Also, it doesn't seem like they were really testing these vaccines for negative effects, especially long-term effects. If, for instance, it made people infertile (I just mention that since it seems to be a popular conspiracy theory) there's no way this could be found.

mRNA technology is, as I understand, fairly experimental. I'm a young and healthy person; I'm pretty confident I won't die of Covid. Relatively untested biotechnology I'm less certain of. Even if it works at reducing Covid transmission I would much rather take my chances with the virus. Others are welcome to test the vaccine if they please; I just don't want to be forced into taking it myself.

It's all in the public domain, I think. I don't have the details on every vaccine but they were the normal trials for safety and efficacy that the regulators demand. For the Oxford/AstraZenenca one there were over 30,000 people in several different countries who took part. No serious side effects were reported. As for long term effects I don't think that is really something that applies to vaccines. That is more a risk with drugs.

If you are worried about the novelty of mRNA technology then you can always get the Oxford vaccine, which uses more conventional technology that has been used many times before. Here is a description of how that one works:-

How does it differ from other vaccines?
The Oxford vaccine, named ChAdOx1 nCoV-19, is based on a different technology to the two recent “mRNA” vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, both of which performed well against Covid. No mRNA vaccine has ever been approved by regulators, but the Oxford approach has been used in vaccines given safely to thousands of people of all ages for diseases ranging from TB and malaria to Mers (another coronavirus) and Ebola, for which it is now being used in Uganda and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Oxford opted for the chimp virus because it has the potential to generate a strong immune response and, since it cannot grow in humans, it should be safe.

From: Oxford AstraZeneca Covid vaccine: everything we know so far

 

[ecco]

If these vaccines are safe, good. But I’m not going to be first in line to to get them.

Those of us who have received the shots are comparatively safe from getting seriously ill or dying from Covid.

We appreciate you going to the back of the line so that more folks like us can get protected.

 

[ecco]

If, for instance, it made people infertile (I just mention that since it seems to be a popular conspiracy theory) there's no way this could be found.

You don't trust the Government, but you are OK with posting conspiracy theories.

In any case, how fertile is a dead person?

 

[exchemist]

Those of us who have received the shots are comparatively safe from getting seriously ill or dying from Covid.

We appreciate you going to the back of the line so that more folks like us can get protected.

Well, if he's a young chap, he's not at great risk and will be at the back of the queue in any case.

 

[ecco]

Well, if he's a young chap, he's not at great risk and will be at the back of the queue in any case.

About 10,000 US covid deaths are for people in the 15-45 age group. That's not a big risk, it's also not no risk.

 

[Trailblazer]

About 10,000 US covid deaths are for people in the 15-45 age group. That's not a big risk, it's also not no risk.

But what about the risk of getting the vaccine? Sorry, but I am not yet ready to take that risk, but I remain isolated and masked whenever I have to go for groceries twice a week late at night when nobody is in the store.

The following is from an e-mail that just came in from the Baha'i who coordinates activities in my community.

Dear Friends,

This event, originally scheduled for Saturday, March 6th, but had to be rescheduled for a week later due to effects from my first COVID shot.

Sorry, no thanks.

 

[Secret Chief]

the risk of getting the vaccine?

Which is?

rescheduled for a week

Just a bit shorter than being dead then.

 

[Trailblazer]

Which is?

We don't know yet.

Just a bit shorter than being dead then.

I am not worried about being dead like most people are, and besides I do not think there is a risk of that since I never come into contact with anyone except when I go grocery shopping twice a week late at night when there is hardly anyone in the store, and I always wear a mask.

 

[Secret Chief]

We don't know yet.

I am not worried about being dead like most people are, and besides I do not think there is a risk of that since I never come into contact with anyone except when I go grocery shopping twice a week late at night when there is hardly anyone in the store, and I always wear a mask.

I'm not worried about being dead either, but your cats need you!

 

[exchemist]

About 10,000 US covid deaths are for people in the 15-45 age group. That's not a big risk, it's also not no risk.

A lot depends on whether he is fat or not. It's the fat ones that die, usually.

 

[exchemist]

But what about the risk of getting the vaccine? Sorry, but I am not yet ready to take that risk, but I remain isolated and masked whenever I have to go for groceries twice a week late at night when nobody is in the store.

The following is from an e-mail that just came in from the Baha'i who coordinates activities in my community.

Dear Friends,

This event, originally scheduled for Saturday, March 6th, but had to be rescheduled for a week later due to effects from my first COVID shot.

Sorry, no thanks.

What effects, precisely? And why does delaying a week make a difference?

It is very unusual to have more than 24hrs of slight feverishness and a sore spot the arm for 4 days or so. And you can get that with any vaccine.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm not worried about being dead either, but your cats need you!

They've got my husband.

 

[Trailblazer]

What effects, precisely? And why does delaying a week make a difference?

It is very unusual to have more than 24hrs of slight feverishness and a sore spot the arm for 4 days or so. And you can get that with any vaccine.

That is all we know of the short-term effects so far but obviously we cannot know anything about the long-term effects. I am not worried about the short-term effects. I am worried about the overall effects, and it is all about costs vs. benefits. If I had to be out in society I might have to rethink my position.

 

[exchemist]

That is all we know of the short-term effects so far but obviously we cannot know anything about the long-term effects. I am not worried about the short-term effects. I am worried about the overall effects, and it is all about costs vs. benefits. If I had to be out in society I might have to rethink my position.

What were these effects in the case of the person you are quoting?

You see, I don't follow why delaying the second dose by a week would make any difference. Something about this story seems odd to me, which is why I am asking what happened to this person you know.

 

[Trailblazer]

What were these effects in the case of the person you are quoting?

I don't know what those effects were. All I know is what she said in her e-mail message.

"This event, originally scheduled for Saturday, March 6th, but had to be rescheduled for a week later due to effects from my first COVID shot."

You see, I don't follow why delaying the second dose by a week would make any difference. Something about this story seems odd to me, which is why I am asking what happened to this person you know.

She was not saying that her second dose had to be delayed, she was saying that a Baha'i activity that had been scheduled had to be rescheduled because of the effects from her first Covid shot.

 

[exchemist]

I don't know what those effects were. All I know is what she said in her e-mail message.

"This event, originally scheduled for Saturday, March 6th, but had to be rescheduled for a week later due to effects from my first COVID shot."

She was not saying that her second dose had to be delayed, she was saying that a Baha'i activity that had been scheduled had to be rescheduled because of the effects from her first Covid shot.

Ah I see. In that case it will probably have been the fairly usual 24-48hrs of feeling a bit feverish, achy and under the weather that is quite common for any vaccine. (Believe me, I've had plenty, because of my former job.)

I wonder if some people are getting all anxious simply because they are not familiar with what vaccines - in general - are like. I remember reading somewhere that only 50% of American even have a passport. So the chances they are won't be used to to getting cholera and typhoid etc jabs before going off to visit 3rd world countries.

My own experience (with the Oxford vaccine) is that it was towards the upper end of the range in after effects, but nothing out of the ordinary. I purposely blocked out the day after the jab in case I didn't feel too great, which is something I've done before.