These Vaccines Work Really Well

[ChristineM]

As I just said on another post, how can they show that those people who did not get vaccinations would have gotten Covid-19 if they had not gotten the vaccination? That is the hundred-dollar question.

So are you saying it is like wearing a seat belt, we should wear it just in case we have an accident? I agree, but the difference is there is no potential for harm by wearing a seat belt whereas there might be potential fro harm from the vaccine. How many drugs that were considered safe and effective later turned out to be dangerous and even caused death?

Your choice, i am confident the vaccines are safe, certainly the statistics indicated there is little or no problem unless you are allergic to eggs.
France is lagging well behind the UK and US for number of vaccinations given but when i am called i will be in the queue.

I am not worried about a sore arm. I am worried about potential negative effects from the vaccine.

I should worry about the disease tunneling holes through your lungs and other organs, at your age the risk of death from covid far outweighs any negative effects of the vaccine

That might be part of the reason but not all of it.

How long have you had a medical degree?

 

[Vinayaka]

These vaccines were developed and released extraordinarily fast compared to previous ones. While doing proper research online should clear up misconceptions about them and explain why that is, it is largely intuitive to be skeptical of something released so unprecedently fast.

I hope your neighbor doesn't die from the virus over his mistaken but understandable belief. Your statement really surprised me given its extremely uncharacteristic lack of empathy.

Yeah some days I get riled at stupidity, lol. Sorry about that. It'll go away.

 

[ecco]

"giving the vaccines to the elderly when there was little data on its effect on that age group"

My husband and I are in that age group and we have been eligible to get the vaccine for some time but we are not sure we want to get it.
I will tell you right now that I do not trust allopathic medicine for as far as I can throw an elephant.
I believe that one reason so many people are susceptible to Covid-19 is because they are sick from allopathic medicine.

Many on the right feel just as you do. That's one reason they refuse to wear masks. The distrust of science is so deeply ingrained that it leads to asinine decisions.

Frankly, I wouldn't care if religious anti-science people didn't get vaccinated and ended up getting sick to various degrees. The only problem with that is that those are the people that will get infected and allow the virus to mutate and cause problems for those of us who did get vaccinated.

 

[ecco]

As to susceptibility, the reason some people get it worse than others appears to be genetic.

Another factor is the amount of virus one was exposed to. That is why packed bars are much worse than open beaches.

 

[ecco]

How can they show that those people who did not get vaccinations would have gotten Covid-19 if they had not gotten the vaccination? That is the hundred-dollar question.

You need to read up on double blind testing procedures. Why are you supposing that test subjects who got a placebo did not get COVID?

 

[ChristineM]

The vaccines were tested in clinical trials before being approved to be used in multiple developed countries. Clinical trials and scientific review are not a "gamble."

These statistics show that people with little or no medical knowledge should stop trying to dictate to scientists what to do once and for all and simply accept that one group knows much more about this than the other. End of story.

The UK began vaccination several (around10) days before the vaccines were generally approved for use. It has just been broadcast tonight that even when approved the data for over 85s was incomplete. That was a risk with peoples lives, lucky the risk paid off.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's called statistics.

I'm 75 and have had both doses. My 74 year old wife is going to get her second one next week. If it were not for allopathic medicine we both would have been dead a long time ago from more than one condition.

Try denying the value of allopathic medicine when you have a broken hip, cancer, cellulitis, septicemia from a cat bite and so forth. If you do, I hope you have your plot and headstone picked out.

I am not saying one should never use allopathic medicine, and obviously it should be used for cases that require surgery or infections or other diseases like heart and lung disease or other life-threatening diseases like cancer.

My husband would also be dead by now without his asthma medication and that is why our homeopathic doctor used to prescribe it before we stopped seeing him. However, I would be dead by now from a suicide if I had not been cured of my depression by homeopathy.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The UK began vaccination several (around10) days before the vaccines were generally approved for use. It has just been broadcast tonight that even when approved the data for over 85s was incomplete. That was a risk with peoples lives, lucky the risk paid off.

A risk with people's safety is not necessarily a risk with people's lives. Compared to the significantly increasing risk of death from COVID for the elderly with pre-existing conditions, is an early vaccination a warranted and perhaps even necessary risk or not?

These are not easy questions, and they are definitely not simple enough for us to dismiss scientists' decisions as merely "risking people's lives." Every person who gets severely ill from the virus is either a potential casualty or one fewer room in an ICU/hospital, potentially resulting in someone else's death. Quick and drastic decisions had to be made in light of the overall circumstances.

 

[Vinayaka]

The other thing that at least one of the vaccines does is if it doesn't stop the disease entirely, it does reduce the symptoms, and that includes death. So although they say it only has a 65% success rate, (success being not getting it at all) there have been no deaths, as the symptoms are reduced. I can't remember which one ... too many names for an old guy to keep track of.

 

[Trailblazer]

What negative effects? What harm? Millions and millions of people have had the vaccination so far. Where is the harm?

It is not known what the harm is yet.

 

[ChristineM]

A risk with people's safety is not necessarily a risk with people's lives. Compared to the significantly increasing risk of death from COVID for the elderly with pre-existing conditions, is an early vaccination a warranted and perhaps even necessary risk or not?

These are not easy questions, and they are definitely not simple enough for us to dismiss scientists' decisions as merely "risking people's lives." Every person who gets severely ill from the virus is either a potential casualty or one fewer room in an ICU/hospital, potentially resulting in someone else's death. Quick and drastic decisions had to be made in light of the overall circumstances.

My suggestion was that the uk government took the risk, not the scientists. I don't know about your country but NICE approval is a requirement for any drug administered via the NHS. The decision was made to preempt that approval. As a said, a risk that paid off.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It is not known what the harm is yet.

The better question is this: what harm of the vaccine would outweigh the harm of vulnerable groups' not getting vaccinated against the virus and having a high chance of catching the virus and either developing severe symptoms (including potentially long-term ones) or dying from it--not to mention overstressing the medical infrastructure and potentially killing more people in need of emergency/intensive care?

 

[Trailblazer]

The vaccines reduce hospitalisation and death by 80%. This is not theory: it what we are seeing in hospitals up and down the country. Get vaccinated.

I'd be all for it if that would get my husband out of the house and into society.

 

[Quagmire]

Yes they are proving to be very effective. The gamble with peoples lives by giving the vaccines to the elderly when there was little data on its effect on that age group and they hadn't been approved for use has paid off handsomely.

I could agree with the sentiment behind this if the vaccinations had been made mandatory. I'm guessing there were a few people who didn't quite understand the risk they were taking, but that's probably a very small minority.

My feeling on this is, hey somebody had to take point. I know it sounds cold, but to me it just makes sense that people at the end of their lives should go first, and since the vaccinations were voluntary I'm guessing a lot of the people we're talking about saw it the same way.

Myself, I'm just over 60, and I signed up for clinical trials for one of the lesser known (and most likely least tested) vaccines before there was any real certainty about their safety because, I figured: I'm 60+, I don't have any kids, I don't owe anybody any money , I've never had to fight a war, live through a major economic depression, an ice age, invasion by space aliens, or a zombie apocalypse (although I have to admit I'm kind of disappointed about that last one).

Relative to almost anyone you want to point too through out all of human history I've had a pretty cushy life so far.

If I can do something to make the world a little more certain and safer for the rest of my species, I kind of feel like I have a responsibility to do so even if there's a little bit of risk.

That said I haven't been called up for the trials yet.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yes they are proving to be very effective. The gamble with peoples lives by giving the vaccines to the elderly when there was little data on its effect on that age group and they hadn't been approved for use has paid off handsomely.

We took a more conservative approach here. Happily, we can now look forwards with some confidence, based on results in other nations.
Our rollout has really just begun in earnest, but strict lockdowns when needed have kept the diseases health impacts lower than in most countries.

 

[Trailblazer]

The vaccines were tested in clinical trials before being approved to be used in multiple developed countries. Clinical trials and scientific review are not a "gamble."

These statistics show that people with little or no medical knowledge should stop trying to dictate to scientists what to do once and for all and simply accept that one group knows much more about this than the other. End of story.

You are right and I know that. I guess that I am not that worried if I die, and neither is my husband, because both of us have difficult lives and we both know the next life will be much better than this life.

However, we do not want to die a horrible death so it is wise to get the vaccine as soon as we can and we are both eligible now. Meanwhile, we have no exposure to any other people, except for the bi-weekly in and out at the grocery store.

 

[Trailblazer]

Relative to almost anyone you want to point too through out all of human history I've had a pretty cushy life so far.

I only wish I could say the same.
I reached a point where I am very cushy financially but that does not solve all my problems.
Death is death, and it is final. We lost six cats in one year, now others have some health issues.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your choice, i am confident the vaccines are safe, certainly the statistics indicated there is little or no problem unless you are allergic to eggs.
France is lagging well behind the UK and US for number of vaccinations given but when i am called i will be in the queue.

I should worry about the disease tunneling holes through your lungs and other organs, at your age the risk of death from covid far outweighs any negative effects of the vaccine.

My husband and I will be getting the vaccine as soon as we have time and composure because it is available to us right now. I am not retired yet and I am busy with our two rental houses and the cats so I am normally last on the list, but meanwhile we are isolated from other people except when I go grocery shopping twice a week. We always wear a mask and so does everyone in this state, including the new tenants I am renting to.

The advantage of my questioning the vaccine is that I learn a lot from everyone here so it is good to question because that is how we learn.... a little psychology never hurts.

 

[Trailblazer]

Many on the right feel just as you do. That's one reason they refuse to wear masks. The distrust of science is so deeply ingrained that it leads to asinine decisions.

Frankly, I wouldn't care if religious anti-science people didn't get vaccinated and ended up getting sick to various degrees. The only problem with that is that those are the people that will get infected and allow the virus to mutate and cause problems for those of us who did get vaccinated.

I am not on the right and I am not religious anti-science. Baha'is believe in the harmony of science and religion and we are enjoined to go to competent physicians when we are ill.

My husband and I wore masks from day one.
As for getting the vaccine, I just explained to ChristineM what we plan to do about that.

#38 Trailblazer, 3 minutes ago

 

[sun rise]

I am not saying one should never use allopathic medicine, and obviously it should be used for cases that require surgery or infections or other diseases like heart and lung disease or other life-threatening diseases like cancer.

My husband would also be dead by now without his asthma medication and that is why our homeopathic doctor used to prescribe it before we stopped seeing him. However, I would be dead by now from a suicide if I had not been cured of my depression by homeopathy.

I think that whatever works is wonderful. We've used acupuncture, Chinese herbs, massage, chiropractic and so forth and find them helpful. And for COVID, we've been taking vitamins and some herbs to help our immune systems.

And given the speed of development, I was also skeptical when the vaccines were first released. In my mind as the rollout continued and my personal criteria for wanting to be vaccinated was satisfied, my initial skepticism about speed was satisfied. And knowing the risk for people in our age group and medical conditions also tipped the balance.

So I hope you'll think about what will overcome your reluctance.