There's no vaccine against willful ignorance

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hopefully we will someday be able to inoculate against COVID-19, thereby potentially saving tens of thousands of lives, but there is no vaccine against willful ignorance and intransigence. How should we deal with the very real threat posed by the vaccine deniers?

 

[ChristineM]

I should say deny them treatment for whatever ails them that vaccine would have prevented. However i am not that callous, so what i would do if i know an individual with such a frightening attitude to other people's lives is not know them any longer, stay clear and let them get on with their lives in isolation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hopefully we will someday be able to inoculate against COVID-19, thereby potentially saving tens of thousands of lives, but there is no vaccine against willful ignorance and intransigence. How should we deal with the very real threat posed by the vaccine deniers?

My plan is leaving America and going to where people have more have more gray matter and less pudding for a brain.

 

[icehorse]

I know a few folks who are otherwise pretty clear headed, but who are anti-vaxxers. Yes, I know, quite a bit of cognitive dissonance there..

Anyway, there are a few arguments I hear them make that have a touch of veracity, that we could take care of:

1 - They question if the CDC is truly open and uncorrupted.
2 - They question if Big Pharma is truly open and uncorrupted.

So it could be that if we could create some truly transparent oversight, we could at least speak to some anti-vaxxers.

The other thing I've noticed about this topic is that it's become EXCEEDINGLY polarizing. I'm mostly pro-vaccines, but I do wonder why the US's schedule is bigger than Europe's schedule. What I've experienced is that when I even ask that question, I'm branded an anti-vaxxer!

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hopefully we will someday be able to inoculate against COVID-19, thereby potentially saving tens of thousands of lives, but there is no vaccine against willful ignorance and intransigence. How should we deal with the very real threat posed by the vaccine deniers?

I dont understand why it would bother anybody. Those who have been vaccinated have nothing to worry about.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I dont understand why it would bother anybody. Those who have been vaccinated have nothing to worry about.

Vaccine effectiveness: How Well Do the Flue Vaccines Work

 

[exchemist]

Hopefully we will someday be able to inoculate against COVID-19, thereby potentially saving tens of thousands of lives, but there is no vaccine against willful ignorance and intransigence. How should we deal with the very real threat posed by the vaccine deniers?

First, take a deep breath and calculate what proportion of the population they represent. Then see if by vaccinating the rest, you still get herd immunity.

If not, then you may need a way to make vaccination effectively mandatory, for example by needing to produce a vaccination certificate to work with other people etc. A bit like the old yellow fever certificates you needed to visit certain countries.

 

[ecco]

Vaccine effectiveness: How Well Do the Flue Vaccines Work

Long article. If you read it, perhaps you would present a summary.

 

[PureX]

The antidote, however, is humility.

 

[sun rise]

- They question if Big Pharma is truly open and uncorrupted.

I agree with that point. Systemic change is needed. But I'm not going to refuse vaccine because the system is ugly and corrupt.

The other thing I've noticed about this topic is that it's become EXCEEDINGLY polarizing. I'm mostly pro-vaccines, but I do wonder why the US's schedule is bigger than Europe's schedule.

Fanatics create counter-fanatics. To me looking at vaccine schedules for the US and Europe and asking about the differences is a reasonable rational question. And I'm 100% pro vaccine.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

First, take a deep breath and calculate what proportion of the population they represent. Then see if by vaccinating the rest, you still get herd immunity.

Excellent point.

 

[Left Coast]

I dont understand why it would bother anybody. Those who have been vaccinated have nothing to worry about.

People who legitimately can't get vaccinated are put at risk in those situations. That's why it's important for those who can get vaccinated, to do so. It's about caring about other people besides oneself.

 

[exchemist]

I know a few folks who are otherwise pretty clear headed, but who are anti-vaxxers. Yes, I know, quite a bit of cognitive dissonance there..

Anyway, there are a few arguments I hear them make that have a touch of veracity, that we could take care of:

1 - They question if the CDC is truly open and uncorrupted.
2 - They question if Big Pharma is truly open and uncorrupted.

So it could be that if we could create some truly transparent oversight, we could at least speak to some anti-vaxxers.

The other thing I've noticed about this topic is that it's become EXCEEDINGLY polarizing. I'm mostly pro-vaccines, but I do wonder why the US's schedule is bigger than Europe's schedule. What I've experienced is that when I even ask that question, I'm branded an anti-vaxxer!

That's interesting. I presume by "schedule" you mean the recommended suite of childhood vaccinations. My son has had MMR, polio, whooping cough (Pertussis), meningitis, HIB, diphtheria, tetanus, BCG (tuberculosis), Hep A and B and something called Heaf.

That list is apparently standard for the UK. What else does one get in the US?

 

[icehorse]

That's interesting. I presume by "schedule" you mean the recommended suite of childhood vaccinations. My son has had MMR, polio, whooping cough (Pertussis), meningitis, HIB, diphtheria, tetanus, BCG (tuberculosis), Hep A and B and something called Heaf.

That list is apparently standard for the UK. What else does one get in the US?

Well it's more like a two-dimensional grid. So it's both which ones a kid gets AND how often they get them. AND it extends into the teenage years and a few forever. As I recall, EVERYONE in the US is supposed to get a tetanus shot every ten years for their whole life.

 

[exchemist]

Well it's more like a two-dimensional grid. So it's both which ones a kid gets AND how often they get them. AND it extends into the teenage years and a few forever. As I recall, EVERYONE in the US is supposed to get a tetanus shot every ten years for their whole life.

Sure, that's because everyone knows the tetanus vaccine (i.e. your immunity) wears off so you need another after 10 years. Same with yellow fever if I recall correctly - and cholera you need very 3 years, and even then the protection is not very good.

But none of this is a scam by Big Pharma, of course: it's just the medical facts.

 

[icehorse]

But none of this is a scam by Big Pharma, of course: it's just the medical facts.

i never said it was. and here i thought we were having a respectful exchange of ideas, sigh.

 

[exchemist]

i never said it was. and here i thought we were having a respectful exchange of ideas, sigh.

I don't mean you, but the suggestion has been made on this thread that antivaxxers become antivaxxers because they think the US slate of vaccine requirements includes unnecessary items, put in to generate profits for drug companies. Which is conceivable, given the nature of the US health system. That's why I was interested in getting a list of the immunisations recommended in the USA, to compare with the list I provided of what the UK NHS expects.

 

[Callisto]

I should say deny them treatment for whatever ails them that vaccine would have prevented. However i am not that callous, so what i would do if i know an individual with such a frightening attitude to other people's lives is not know them any longer, stay clear and let them get on with their lives in isolation.

I'd vote for that. I'm also not above suing them for all they're worth or possibly a criminal charge with hefty fines if it can be established they were the cause of other's infection(s). It's sad that some people don't comprehend the bigger picture unless and until it personally impacts them. So many stories of people who thought because they're healthy/active/young/whatever that they'd either not catch it or would have minor symptoms only to end up needing lung transplants or ultimately dying. Unnecessary heart ache for others left in their wake. smh

 

[ChristineM]

I'd vote for that. I'm also not above suing them for all they're worth or possibly a criminal charge with hefty fines if it can be established they were the cause of other's infection(s). It's sad that some people don't comprehend the bigger picture unless and until it personally impacts them. So many stories of people who thought because they're healthy/active/young/whatever that they'd either not catch it or would have minor symptoms only to end up needing lung transplants or ultimately dying. Unnecessary heart ache for others left in their wake. smh

In such a case i don't see why a charge of murder or at the least man slaughter shouldn't be brought if their selfishness causes the death of another person.

 

[Revoltingest]

Vaccine effectiveness: How Well Do the Flue Flu Vaccines Work

Fixed.
Where'd that "e" come from?
It sure gets around.