There's no such thing as the "war on women"

[dawny0826]

It would be there until someone took it to court, and it went back up to the Supreme Court, where the law would be ruled as unconstitutional yet again. It probably wouldn't even make it to the Supreme court before it was shot down.

Agreed

 

[dawny0826]

You want women weighing in on matters related to women?......well this is just scary.

This is Wisconsin Senate bill SB206. Mandatory Ultrasound.

[youtube]q4H-UkhonCM[/youtube]
WI Senator Mary Lazich speaks on SB206 (Abortion bill) 6.12.13 - YouTube

Wow...!!!

Here's the proposed bill:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

It's no doubt pro-life. But, there are some positives proposed within the bill.

An ultrasound is a customary. A woman just doesn't go to the clinic or to her OBGYN and inform the OBGYN that she's pregnant and that's it. A pregnancy test and ultrasound is performed to:

• Verify that there is a pregnancy
• Verify proper procedure: Is this an ectopic pregnancy? Are there any areas of concern that may impact the procedure?

Presently, a provider doesn't have to provide the woman choice. They could legally use whatever ultrasound tool they want to and
are not required to provide her access to her ultrasound.

I don't like the biased verbiage of the bill, but it would provide women the ability to CHOOSE how their ultrasound is administered and to have access.

But, this can be accomplished through opt in/opt out/specify choice very easily.

I agree fully that there should be a pre-service consultation. There usually is with any medical procedure. A consultation should be non-biased, factual - providing information regarding the procedure itself, without pressure on the patient.

If an ultrasound is part of the procedure (I can't fathom there not being an ultrasound at some point to verify the pregnancy), explaining what her choices are and leaving the ball in her court as to how things proceed is the best way to go. Further, if a pregnancy has been verified, there's no need for a second ultrasound, if she's legally agreed to terminate the pregnancy.

This bill allows for guilting, which I don't agree with.

 

[crossfire]

If an ultrasound is part of the procedure (I can't fathom there not being an ultrasound at some point to verify the pregnancy),

We have been verifying pregnancies without ultrasound for longer than ultrasound has been around.

 

[Alceste]

We are onthe same page, then.



I agree.



Agreed.

Awesome. :drunk:

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Here's the proposed bill:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

It's no doubt pro-life. But, there are some positives proposed within the bill.

An ultrasound is a customary. A woman just doesn't go to the clinic or to her OBGYN and inform the OBGYN that she's pregnant and that's it. A pregnancy test and ultrasound is performed to:

• Verify that there is a pregnancy
• Verify proper procedure: Is this an ectopic pregnancy? Are there any areas of concern that may impact the procedure?

Presently, a provider doesn't have to provide the woman choice. They could legally use whatever ultrasound tool they want to and
are not required to provide her access to her ultrasound.

I don't like the biased verbiage of the bill, but it would provide women the ability to CHOOSE how their ultrasound is administered and to have access.

But, this can be accomplished through opt in/opt out/specify choice very easily.

I agree fully that there should be a pre-service consultation. There usually is with any medical procedure. A consultation should be non-biased, factual - providing information regarding the procedure itself, without pressure on the patient.

If an ultrasound is part of the procedure (I can't fathom there not being an ultrasound at some point to verify the pregnancy), explaining what her choices are and leaving the ball in her court as to how things proceed is the best way to go. Further, if a pregnancy has been verified, there's no need for a second ultrasound, if she's legally agreed to terminate the pregnancy.

This bill allows for guilting, which I don't agree with.

By jove I think we have an agreement! :yes:

 

[dust1n]

I've since edited my post, as the verbiage I chose was very poor.

Out of those 37 states, the laws vary. Seven ban abortion after 20 weeks and with the others, it varies. Some indicate a ban after 24 weeks and others ban after "viability", which, realistically could be anywhere between 23-28 weeks.

You can check it out here:

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OAL.pdf

Thanks for the source! As I understand, as long as the state law doesn't run counter to the whole "women have the right to 24 weeks" via the 14th amendment, states are free to set their own laws around this as they see it. That may be an over simplification.

Agreed

Ya! :dan:

And by the way, since I never made the effort previously, I congratulate you and FH on your child. I have no doubt in my mind that kid well have the most awesome environment and will end up being as sharp as a razor.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Here's the proposed bill:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2013/related/proposals/sb206

It's no doubt pro-life. But, there are some positives proposed within the bill.

An ultrasound is a customary. A woman just doesn't go to the clinic or to her OBGYN and inform the OBGYN that she's pregnant and that's it. A pregnancy test and ultrasound is performed to:

• Verify that there is a pregnancy
• Verify proper procedure: Is this an ectopic pregnancy? Are there any areas of concern that may impact the procedure?

Presently, a provider doesn't have to provide the woman choice. They could legally use whatever ultrasound tool they want to and
are not required to provide her access to her ultrasound.

I don't like the biased verbiage of the bill, but it would provide women the ability to CHOOSE how their ultrasound is administered and to have access.

But, this can be accomplished through opt in/opt out/specify choice very easily.

I agree fully that there should be a pre-service consultation. There usually is with any medical procedure. A consultation should be non-biased, factual - providing information regarding the procedure itself, without pressure on the patient.

If an ultrasound is part of the procedure (I can't fathom there not being an ultrasound at some point to verify the pregnancy), explaining what her choices are and leaving the ball in her court as to how things proceed is the best way to go. Further, if a pregnancy has been verified, there's no need for a second ultrasound, if she's legally agreed to terminate the pregnancy.

This bill allows for guilting, which I don't agree with.

A lot of what you've presented I can agree to....but the burning question is...."Is this the role of government"...or is this overreach?

Other than government...Is there a way to provide women with information or do you think this is a better way...through legislation?

I don't mind the bill if it's designed to hold the healthcare provider accountable to provide all available information, technology and options.

And for the ladies here...excuse my ignorance if there is a lot of information provided. I'm not sure what is or isn't.

 

[Alceste]

A lot of what you've presented I can agree to....but the burning question is...."Is this the role of government"...or is this overreach?

Other than government...Is there a way to provide women with information or do you think this is a better way...through legislation?

I don't mind the bill if it's designed to hold the healthcare provider accountable to provide all available information, technology and options.

And for the ladies here...excuse my ignorance if there is a lot of information provided. I'm not sure what is or isn't.

Doctors here give you all the information on your options for birth control and unplanned pregnancy. I did not find it possible to discern what they thought was "right" when I received this information. I had an ultrasound (not vaginal) but did not gather that the purpose of this procedure was to make me feel guilty or persuade me I should decide this way or that way. She just pointed out the blob and said "it looks like it isn't growing - come back next week if it hasn't miscarried naturally by then". I went back and repeated the procedure, and it looked like it was growing. She told me about my options in a non-judgmental fashion, explaining that both the drugs used in a chemical abortion were already in use for other purposes (one was a cancer drug, interestingly enough, the other is used to induce contractions). I felt that she was very professional. She gave me all the information I needed and did not allow any of her personal feelings about the subject to show.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Doctors here give you all the information on your options for birth control and unplanned pregnancy. I did not find it possible to discern what they thought was "right" when I received this information. I had an ultrasound (not vaginal) but did not gather that the purpose of this procedure was to make me feel guilty or persuade me I should decide this way or that way. She just pointed out the blob and said "it looks like it isn't growing - come back next week if it hasn't miscarried naturally by then". I went back and repeated the procedure, and it looked like it was growing. She told me about my options in a non-judgmental fashion, explaining that both the drugs used in a chemical abortion were already in use for other purposes (one was a cancer drug, interestingly enough, the other is used to induce contractions). I felt that she was very professional. She gave me all the information I needed and did not allow any of her personal feelings about the subject to show.

This is what I've gathered from many healthcare providers here. I'm sure there are some unprofessional places out there but I haven't gotten the sense that lack of information is a big problem here in the US concerning this subject....Oh, and I'm against mandatory vaginal ultrasound. I think it's unnecessary, invasive and expensive. If they are to do one then a standard one "should" suffice.

 

[Alceste]

This is what I've gathered from many healthcare providers here. I'm sure there are some unprofessional places out there but I haven't gotten the sense that lack of information is a big problem here in the US concerning this subject....Oh, and I'm against mandatory vaginal ultrasound. I think it's unnecessary, invasive and expensive. If they are to do one then a standard one "should" suffice.

There was no need for any kind of vaginal penetration for my doctor to get a good look at my uterus. None. What possible reason could legislators have for demanding that a woman be vaginally penetrated, while having it condescendingly explained to her that the tiny blob she sees on the screen is going to be a little human being some day?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

There was no need for any kind of vaginal penetration for my doctor to get a good look at my uterus. None. What possible reason could legislators have for demanding that a woman be vaginally penetrated, while having it condescendingly explained to her that the tiny blob she sees on the screen is going to be a little human being some day?

Like we've been discussing...it's to same the woman.....at least that's the vibe I got listening and watching that lady in the video I posted. It's so sad that the wing of this government keeps focusing on this. More and more young people who will be voters one day are rejecting these polices. Many of the young conservatives seem to be accepting of a woman's right to choose as well as LGBT rights. My own governor, who's now under investigation, ran on this platform and was elected. One big problem I have with my party is during the off years or "midterms" we seem to be asleep at the wheel....and are barely conscious after the crash....it's as only then do we wake up and get involved....sad.

 

[Alceste]

Like we've been discussing...it's to same the woman.....at least that's the vibe I got listening and watching that lady in the video I posted. It's so sad that the wing of this government keeps focusing on this. More and more young people who will be voters one day are rejecting these polices. Many of the young conservatives seem to be accepting of a woman's right to choose as well as LGBT rights. My own governor, who's now under investigation, ran on this platform and was elected. One big problem I have with my party is during the off years or "midterms" we seem to be asleep at the wheel....and are barely conscious after the crash....it's as only then do we wake up and get involved....sad.

Yeah, it is sad. I want to holler over the border "WAKE UP, LADIES!" and get them all to read the Handmaid's Tale. I honestly have NO IDEA why any American woman votes Republican. Small government, low tax, bla bla bla, it all sounds nice on a bumper sticker and may or may not be a good idea, but reproductive health care is a serious personal issue for absolutely every living woman. Having a baby is a hell of a lot more destructive to a woman's personal financial situation than paying a few bucks more tax every year, never mind the toll it takes on the body.

That's not to say the support of male voters is not fundamental to the success of any efforts to maintain women's rights in the US, but American women could sort this out by themselves if they had to, and if they had their heads screwed on straight. They kept Romney and his constitutional anti-abortion amendment out of the white house pretty much by themselves. They could do so much more.

 

[dawny0826]

We have been verifying pregnancies without ultrasound for longer than ultrasound has been around.

Not always with success.

 

[tytlyf]

Inbound Rick Perry's war on women (biblical inspiration)

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) has vetoed a bill meant to prevent wage discrimination against women.

Rick Perry Vetoes Texas Equal Pay Bill

 

[dawny0826]

And by the way, since I never made the effort previously, I congratulate you and FH on your child. I have no doubt in my mind that kid well have the most awesome environment and will end up being as sharp as a razor.

That's really sweet, but, my baby making days are over. I have two daughters (eleven and eight) from my previous marriage and they really are sharp, amazing little girls. I'm very proud of them.

FH is an amazing partner in parenting and he embraced my girls from our very first visit together as if they were his own. But, he's never desired babies of his own. And I'm okay with that. We're having fun raising my girls. And my girls have struck gold, as they have two father figures who adore them.

 

[dawny0826]

A lot of what you've presented I can agree to....but the burning question is...."Is this the role of government"...or is this overreach?

Other than government...Is there a way to provide women with information or do you think this is a better way...through legislation?

I don't mind the bill if it's designed to hold the healthcare provider accountable to provide all available information, technology and options.

And for the ladies here...excuse my ignorance if there is a lot of information provided. I'm not sure what is or isn't.

It shouldn't be the role of government.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for health care providers to provide their patients with non-biased information regarding procedure and when options are available, provide women the opportunity to choose or opt-in/out as appropriate.

 

[crossfire]

Yeah, it is sad. I want to holler over the border "WAKE UP, LADIES!" and get them all to read the Handmaid's Tale.

Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale would make a great pairing with George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. You'd save shipping costs to boot.

 

[Alceste]

Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale would make a great pairing with George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. You'd save shipping costs to boot.

Totally. Throw in Paolo Bacigalupi's Shipbreaker so see where all this is leading.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Inbound Rick Perry's war on women (biblical inspiration)


[/B]
Rick Perry Vetoes Texas Equal Pay Bill

What's wrong with the women in that party....?

I just don't get it...!

 

[dust1n]

That's really sweet, but, my baby making days are over. I have two daughters (eleven and eight) from my previous marriage and they really are sharp, amazing little girls. I'm very proud of them.

FH is an amazing partner in parenting and he embraced my girls from our very first visit together as if they were his own. But, he's never desired babies of his own. And I'm okay with that. We're having fun raising my girls. And my girls have struck gold, as they have two father figures who adore them.

Oh, for some reason, I thought you two were having a child, too. Phantom memories.

That's awesome. I'm not surprised one bit FH is much loved.