There is no Sin...

[Secret Chief]

I myself don't seek enemies neither but just because you don't seek them doesn't mean they won't find you

I've dodged them so far

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We have no effect on what is ultimately true.

Well, yes, but if that is unknown in practice, it doesn't matter for this life, unless you believe you know.

 

[Muffled]

Outside of religion.

If sin is breaking or disobeying God's rules. Then it depends on what God you follow as different Gods have different rules for their followers. Whereas one action maybe a sin for the follower of one God. It may not be a sin for one who follows a different God.

One cannot "sin" if the action is not breaking the rules of the God they follow.

So to be sinless, free of sin, one must simply not follow any God.

I believe that does not matter because God still knows it is sin.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, correct.

And then we start about other words including harm and what that is.

Isn't that a Buddhist concept? I believe the truth is that harm is not always a sin.

 

[Muffled]

Yes and I want to add that there is no good or evil. Life is a cruel war and in order to survive we have to be cruel too. It isn't a luxury it is a necessity.

I believe that telling you there is good and evil leaves you without excuse. You now become responsible for what you know.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Outside of religion.

If sin is breaking or disobeying God's rules. Then it depends on what God you follow as different Gods have different rules for their followers. Whereas one action maybe a sin for the follower of one God. It may not be a sin for one who follows a different God.

One cannot "sin" if the action is not breaking the rules of the God they follow.

So to be sinless, free of sin, one must simply not follow any God.

As a former Christian, I now reject the notion that we sin against God as well as the scare tactics that go along with it, such as the fear of God's wrath, the shame and guilt trips associated with allegedly transgressing against God, and the fear of hell for allegedly sinning against God and not receiving his forgiveness for these sins before we die. I was a Christian for 30 years, and as far as I'm concerned, Christianity is mainly a religion of fear, shame, and guilt trips. It's normally based on the fear of God's wrath against sin, the fear of going to hell for disobeying and sinning against God, and guilt trips and personal shame for sinning against God. And according to most Christian teaching, if we don't accept Jesus Christ as our savior and we don't receive God's forgiveness for sinning against him, then we will suffer God's wrath and be cast into hell to be tortured for all eternity. In summary, living a life of disobedience against God results in an eternity of torture in hell. In my opinion, if this one belief isn't a self-defeating guilt trip, then I'm not sure what is.

And as a former Christian, I no longer fear being judged by God or being sent to hell. I've let go of these fear-based tactics, and I no longer allow these beliefs to control my thoughts or my life. The fearmongering tactics that I was exposed to as a Christian had an emotionally devastating impact on my life, and being a Christian was a never-ending waking nightmare. I used to be deeply terrified of the wrath of God to the point of making myself physically sick, and I lived in constant fear that God would strike me down dead at any moment if I sinned against him and didn't immediately repent of my sins. Not only was I terrified of God's wrath, but I also felt a deep shame and guilt for sinning against him. I was constantly afraid of losing my salvation if I sinned against God and then died without repenting, and I truly feared going to hell even though I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior (Matthew 7:21–23). There was absolutely no peace and joy in my life that was promised in the Bible to the followers of Jesus. To be honest, being a Christian was extremely detrimental to my mental health and emotional well-being, and I never want to be a Christian again. It was very difficult for me to let go of my Christian faith because I had believed in God and had been a Christian for the majority of my life. It was a painful experience.

I realize and understand that all the years of negative experiences I've had with Christianity are only anecdotal evidence, just as when Christians share their positive stories about having God in their lives. My point is that, after realizing that my faith, hope, and trust in God were emotional crutches and detrimental to my mental health, I finally made the decision to let it all go in order to emotionally heal and better my life. I've healed emotionally and have improved my life without believing in God and having faith in him. As I've shared before, it was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health and emotional well-being. It was, without a doubt, the best decision that I've ever made for myself. It took some time for me to let go of my faith in God and heal, but forsaking my faith turned my life around for the better. I have peace and joy in my heart, and I feel content with my life. That's something that I never felt during the 30 years I was a Christian and during the years before when I sincerely believed in God and prayed to him, asking him to protect me from being abused, mistreated, and bullied. I think my experience of letting go of my Christian beliefs is analogous to being imprisoned, except that my cell door was always open and I was unaware that I could leave whenever I wanted to. I feel like Christianity was a prison for me, and now that I'm free from it, I will never go back. There is no amount of inane shaming, guilt trips, or threats of suffering God's wrath and hellfire that Christians can hurl at me that will ever convince me to become a Christian again.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Isn't that a Buddhist concept? I believe the truth is that harm is not always a sin.

No, not just. You can also find it in secular Western belief systems.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe that does not matter because God still knows it is sin.

I believe Jews don't expect non-Jews to follow their 613 laws.
It is a sin for a Jew to not follow these laws. Christians do not follow a majority of these laws. So is it a sin for Christians to not follow these laws?

 

[Nakosis]

Ultimately disloyalty to deity is sin weather we believe it or not. Ignorance of the law will not be a valid defense. Like disbelieving in taxes.

So do you follow all of the laws in the Bible or are you disloyal?

 

[Aupmanyav]

And then we start about other words including harm and what that is.

Yeah, 'dharma'. As an atheist, the word 'sin' is not in my dictionary, but as a Hindu, 'dharma' is. The Hindu word for 'sin' will be 'adharma'. Engaging in righteous (humane) action is integral to 'dharma'.

 

[Nakosis]

No, if sin is disobedience, and you disobey, then you have sin regardless of what you keep as your god. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but disobeying is disobeying, even if you don't accept the God.

Um, but which God. There are plenty of Gods one could believe in. Probably a number of Gods you don't even know about. Doesn't seem fair that a God you don't even know about would expect you to follow their laws.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe Jews don't expect non-Jews to follow their 613 laws.
It is a sin for a Jew to not follow these laws. Christians do not follow a majority of these laws. So is it a sin for Christians to not follow these laws?

No .. not all the laws are appropriate for Christians.
There are major sins and minor sins.
"washing hands" could be considered "a law", but it is not so important as "thou shalt not commit adultery", for example.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

As a former Christian, I now reject the notion that we sin against God as well as the scare tactics that go along with it, such as the fear of God's wrath, the shame and guilt trips associated with allegedly transgressing against God, and the fear of hell for allegedly sinning against God and not receiving his forgiveness for these sins before we die. I was a Christian for 30 years, and as far as I'm concerned, Christianity is mainly a religion of fear, shame, and guilt trips. It's normally based on the fear of God's wrath against sin, the fear of going to hell for disobeying and sinning against God, and guilt trips and personal shame for sinning against God. And according to most Christian teaching, if we don't accept Jesus Christ as our savior and we don't receive God's forgiveness for sinning against him, then we will suffer God's wrath and be cast into hell to be tortured for all eternity. In summary, living a life of disobedience against God results in an eternity of torture in hell. In my opinion, if this one belief isn't a self-defeating guilt trip, then I'm not sure what is.

And as a former Christian, I no longer fear being judged by God or being sent to hell. I've let go of these fear-based tactics, and I no longer allow these beliefs to control my thoughts or my life. The fearmongering tactics that I was exposed to as a Christian had an emotionally devastating impact on my life, and being a Christian was a never-ending waking nightmare. I used to be deeply terrified of the wrath of God to the point of making myself physically sick, and I lived in constant fear that God would strike me down dead at any moment if I sinned against him and didn't immediately repent of my sins. Not only was I terrified of God's wrath, but I also felt a deep shame and guilt for sinning against him. I was constantly afraid of losing my salvation if I sinned against God and then died without repenting, and I truly feared going to hell even though I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior (Matthew 7:21–23). There was absolutely no peace and joy in my life that was promised in the Bible to the followers of Jesus. To be honest, being a Christian was extremely detrimental to my mental health and emotional well-being, and I never want to be a Christian again. It was very difficult for me to let go of my Christian faith because I had believed in God and had been a Christian for the majority of my life. It was a painful experience.

I realize and understand that all the years of negative experiences I've had with Christianity are only anecdotal evidence, just as when Christians share their positive stories about having God in their lives. My point is that, after realizing that my faith, hope, and trust in God were emotional crutches and detrimental to my mental health, I finally made the decision to let it all go in order to emotionally heal and better my life. I've healed emotionally and have improved my life without believing in God and having faith in him. As I've shared before, it was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health and emotional well-being. It was, without a doubt, the best decision that I've ever made for myself. It took some time for me to let go of my faith in God and heal, but forsaking my faith turned my life around for the better. I have peace and joy in my heart, and I feel content with my life. That's something that I never felt during the 30 years I was a Christian and during the years before when I sincerely believed in God and prayed to him, asking him to protect me from being abused, mistreated, and bullied. I think my experience of letting go of my Christian beliefs is analogous to being imprisoned, except that my cell door was always open and I was unaware that I could leave whenever I wanted to. I feel like Christianity was a prison for me, and now that I'm free from it, I will never go back. There is no amount of inane shaming, guilt trips, or threats of suffering God's wrath and hellfire that Christians can hurl at me that will ever convince me to become a Christian again.

I wish you, and the many other individuals who recall similar experiences didn't have to endure such torment from the community that was supposed to be support guidance and protection.

I am glad you were seemingly able to recognize that, whether there is a God or not, it wasn't the source of torment, but the 'holier-than-thou' (presumedly) congregation you were forced or coerced into. I don't blame you for avoiding individuals who claim to represent the group responsible for that chapter in your life.

They couldn't snuff the flame in your heart and not from a lack of trying. Keep that torch bright and spread the lovelight!

 

[Nakosis]

Every person on the planet of 7.9 Billion people except a Few Elect hundred/thousand Practice Left-Hand Path Religion. Some of these persons recognise Sin while others are, apparently, Free from the notion of Sin, yet they are walking the Same Path.

Every Society on the planet recognises Sin. It's a Sin to drive through a red light and you get punished for doing so with a Fine. It's a Sin to Murder and you get punished for doing with the death penalty in some States in the United States. Societies cannot function without Moral Boundaries. Having said that, there are a Few Elites that take pleasure in breaking every Moral Boundary and it appears they receive no punishment for doing so.

If you read the Bible, esp. the OT. Sin is specifically breaking the law of God. Running a red light may be be a good idea, for safety reason, but I doubt it is a transgression against God.

I mean yeah, if you want to expand the meaning of sin to something beyond the Bible I suppose it can mean any kind of wrong doing, but I'm referring to what is specifically in the Bible.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Um, but which God. There are plenty of Gods one could believe in. Probably a number of Gods you don't even know about. Doesn't seem fair that a God you don't even know about would expect you to follow their laws.

How are we certain they're not just many facets of the same thing?

 

[Nakosis]

No .. not all the laws are appropriate for Christians.
There are major sins and minor sins.
"washing hands" could be considered "a law", but it is not so important as "thou shalt not commit adultery", for example.

Sure, I'd expect in the same way these laws are not appropriate for non-Christians as well. Muslims as well have different laws.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

If you read the Bible, esp. the OT. Sin is specifically breaking the law of God.

As I do not know any languages besides... 'Merican, lol... There's a good chance I'm wrong, but in post #28 I shared the definition and meaning that I found most agreeable.

 

[Nakosis]

How are we certain they're not just many facets of the same thing?

How are we certain about anything when it comes to claims about God.
Does it matter what we choose since anything is as likely to be wrong as right?
I can chose A and you could chose B to believe. Either of us are as likely to be right.

Maybe there are thousands of Gods none having any interest in the other. Each with their own heaven which their followers go to.

Are you certain there is not?

 

[Colt]

So do you follow all of the laws in the Bible or are you disloyal?

No, I don't. The Bible is a collection of books written by holy men, some more holy than others. It reflects evolved religion which is largely man made.

 

[Nakosis]

As I do not know any languages besides... 'Merican, lol... There's a good chance I'm wrong, but in post #28 I shared the definition and meaning that I found most agreeable.

Ok, but I have seriously look into it, in the Bible and it's meaning per the OT is pretty clear. This definition of missing the mark came later.
Still I understand it is the one commonly used by Christians. It is convenient for their theology.
One's understanding of God is very dependent on language.