There ain't no Jesus here.

[Tumah]

Any Christians out there, ever tried reading the TaNaCH without reading Jesus into it?
Just reading what it says and taking it at face value without the lens of the NT?

I'd be interested to know how you fared and where you had no choice but to read Jesus there for lack of better explanation of the passage.

 

[roger1440]

Any Christians out there, ever tried reading the TaNaCH without reading Jesus into it?
Just reading what it says and taking it at face value without the lens of the NT?

I'd be interested to know how you fared and where you had no choice but to read Jesus there for lack of better explanation of the passage.

About 3 years ago I had downloaded the Jewish study Bible. I was hoping to gain a little insight on a few topics. I soon noticed the study notes read pretty much like the study notes in the New International Version Study Bible and the New King James Study Bible. Many of the study notes go like, “it could mean this or it could mean that or many even the other thing”. When I search the internet for commentary most are coming from a Christian perspective. But then again Christians probably out number Jews a 1000 to 1. I’m mainly interested in a 1st century Jewish perspective on Jewish scripture. There is very very little material available from that time period.

 

[FearGod]

Any Christians out there, ever tried reading the TaNaCH without reading Jesus into it?
Just reading what it says and taking it at face value without the lens of the NT?

I'd be interested to know how you fared and where you had no choice but to read Jesus there for lack of better explanation of the passage.

I'm not a christian, but the Sabbath will come to mind.
Do you think that we should kill those who wanted to work in the rest day?

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 31
15 Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever performs work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.'

 

[Tumah]

About 3 years ago I had downloaded the Jewish study Bible. I was hoping to gain a little insight on a few topics. I soon noticed the study notes read pretty much like the study notes in the New International Version Study Bible and the New King James Study Bible. Many of the study notes go like, “it could mean this or it could mean that or many even the other thing”. When I search the internet for commentary most are coming from a Christian perspective. But then again Christians probably out number Jews a 1000 to 1. I’m mainly interested in a 1st century Jewish perspective on Jewish scripture. There is very very little material available from that time period.

Have you heard of Onkelos?

 

[Tumah]

I'm not a christian, but the Sabbath will come to mind.
Do you think that we should kill those who wanted to work in the rest day?

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 31
15 Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever performs work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.'

This has nothing to do with my thread.

 

[wizanda]

ever tried reading the TaNaCH without reading Jesus into it?

Yes of course; it is the best way to understand a book, by starting at the beginning.

Just reading what it says and taking it at face value without the lens of the NT?

If you apply the lens of the whole of the New Testament, it ends up being more confusing; as Christianity (Paul, John, Simon) create a manner in which to assess it by, that doesn't necessarily fit within the text, and defiles the Law.

So by reading the Tanakh first, understanding the Law, and then the prophets, you see how somethings are required to make it fit together.

A servant will be sent, who shall be put to death; yet later receive the kingdom....

Because they help establish a snare, and line across Israel, that shall catch out those who swear falsely, and steal what isn't theirs, as they're quick to the spoils (If you know the Tanakh well enough, you may understand that comes from the Tanakh first, Yeshua after, as you can't really see it in reverse).

Can go into great detail of using the Tanakh's prophecy to show a line of trajectory, of what is required to fulfill it.

Sometimes ponder if the New Testament is even totally made up by the Jews or YHVH, as it fits so cleverly with the prophetic text, it is beyond normal comprehension, and takes a Bible word search to realize how it is put together.

 

[FearGod]

I'm not a christian, but the Sabbath will come to mind.
Do you think that we should kill those who wanted to work in the rest day?

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 31
15 Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever performs work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.'

My point is that Jesus disobeyed the law of the Sabbath in the NT.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Any Christians out there, ever tried reading the TaNaCH without reading Jesus into it?
Just reading what it says and taking it at face value without the lens of the NT?

I'd be interested to know how you fared and where you had no choice but to read Jesus there for lack of better explanation of the passage.

I haven't actually read it , nor do I care too , not from a point of none interest more a point of it does not concern me.
My thoughts if Jesus was prominent in the book you mention , this thread would be none existant.
In computer programming the programmer offers a completely workable solution .
Reality is the interactions the user makes with the software can expose bugs and also fundermental problems within the code. When not used as intended . Ctrl alt F4 might be detrimental to the programs functionability .Is no crime to hit Ctrl alt F4.
At this stage it is impossible for the programmer to scrap the project and start over . As its already been released .
So he creates patches and work arounds for the broken code rather than replace the whole thing .
Should we of wiped out the whole thing and made our own God separate from Judaism .
My thoughts again , the crusades would of resulted in nations extinction had the early Christians not of made the connection to the God of Israel ?
You would prefare back to the Gods of pre Rome with definite distinction between your god and mine ?

 

[wizanda]

My thoughts if Jesus was prominent in the book you mention , this thread would be none existant.

His name was Yehoshua/Yeshua, therefore there are multiple references within the Tanakh...

The reason the thread is here, is because some choose to misunderstand contexts.

In computer programming the programmer offers a completely workable solution .

If you were really using a computer coding methodology; you'd understand how to use a search function to look through classes (Tanakh), to find the definitions of the variables....

This shows the divine programmers inspiration within the Tanakh, and proves prophecy, when you qualify some of the terms using this method.

At this stage it is impossible for the programmer to scrap the project and start over . As its already been released .

As Yeshua said, "not one jot or tittle shall be removed from the Law (code); until all things are fulfilled"...

In other words, the Tanakh code has to run first before it can be removed on judgement day; not remove it because we can't be bothered to understand it, and simply go with a guess of what we think it means.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Another interesting fact
Jewish people may of had a run on violence themselves in the OT , but reality the nation not really a fighting force as in conquests .
Is a national struggle before Israel , Jewish are the weakest or among as a fighting force .
Why would the world then accept the religion of the weak .
The fact we accept your religion is a complete contradiction to the reality.

 

[wizanda]

Is a national struggle before Israel , Jewish are the weakest or among as a fighting force .

If you'd bothered to read the Bible, rather than just follow it... You'd know that at one point in history the Israelites were a strong force, whilst David, and other kings were alive....

That is why Judaism wants to have a king like him again, and refused to accept peaceful Yeshua when he came along; as they wanted someone who would lead them to defeat the Romans.

 

[roger1440]

Have you heard of Onkelos?

No, I had to look the term up.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112286/jewish/Onkelos.htm

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

If you'd bothered to read the Bible, rather than just follow it... You'd know that at one point in history the Israelites were a strong force, whilst David, and other kings were alive....

That is why Judaism wants to have a king like him again, and refused to accept peaceful Yeshua when he came along; as they wanted someone who would lead them to defeat the Romans.

Right when you say Yeshua you refer to the prophet and son of mankind , Jesus ?
Thought it was your word for God

 

[roger1440]

I haven't actually read it , nor do I care too , not from a point of none interest more a point of it does not concern me.
My thoughts if Jesus was prominent in the book you mention , this thread would be none existant.
In computer programming the programmer offers a completely workable solution .
Reality is the interactions the user makes with the software can expose bugs and also fundermental problems within the code. When not used as intended . Ctrl alt F4 might be detrimental to the programs functionability .Is no crime to hit Ctrl alt F4.
At this stage it is impossible for the programmer to scrap the project and start over . As its already been released .
So he creates patches and work arounds for the broken code rather than replace the whole thing .
Should we of wiped out the whole thing and made our own God separate from Judaism .
My thoughts again , the crusades would of resulted in nations extinction had the early Christians not of made the connection to the God of Israel ?
You would prefare back to the Gods of pre Rome with definite distinction between your god and mine ?

Software uses logic, language uses interpretation. They are not always in agreement. If I were to tell you, “I shot an elephant while in my pajamas” what am I telling you?

 

[wizanda]

Software uses logic, language uses interpretation.

The Bible is precise; people are not... Therefore God is a divine programmer, and why many of us have made up our own ideas of what things mean.

Right when you say Yeshua you refer to the prophet and son of mankind , Jesus ?

Yeshua was his name; jesus is a transliteration of his name from Aramaic/Hebrew - Greek - Latin - English...

Which is why it is so wrong, as you never translate something through 4 langauges to get a translation.

His name in English should be Joshua, which is a direct translation of Yehoshua (Hebrew) and Yeshua (Aramaic).

 

[roger1440]

The Bible is precise; people are not... Therefore God is a divine programmer, and why many of us have made up our own ideas of what things mean.

Yeshua was his name; jesus is a transliteration of his name from Aramaic/Hebrew - Greek - Latin - English...

Which is why it is so wrong, as you never translate something through 4 langauges to get a translation.

His name in English should be Joshua, which is a direct translation of Yehoshua (Hebrew) and Yeshua (Aramaic).

Did Jesus ride into town on one donkey or two? and explain why?

 

[wizanda]

Did Jesus ride into town on one donkey or two? and explain why?

1, as we have 3 references standing together as one. Thus by more than one witness, can we establish a case.

 

[Tumah]

No, I had to look the term up.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112286/jewish/Onkelos.htm

I mentioned him because I think he's a first century Jewish translator.

 

[Tumah]

I haven't actually read it , nor do I care too , not from a point of none interest more a point of it does not concern me.
My thoughts if Jesus was prominent in the book you mention , this thread would be none existant.
In computer programming the programmer offers a completely workable solution .
Reality is the interactions the user makes with the software can expose bugs and also fundermental problems within the code. When not used as intended . Ctrl alt F4 might be detrimental to the programs functionability .Is no crime to hit Ctrl alt F4.
At this stage it is impossible for the programmer to scrap the project and start over . As its already been released .
So he creates patches and work arounds for the broken code rather than replace the whole thing .
Should we of wiped out the whole thing and made our own God separate from Judaism .
My thoughts again , the crusades would of resulted in nations extinction had the early Christians not of made the connection to the God of Israel ?
You would prefare back to the Gods of pre Rome with definite distinction between your god and mine ?

ok.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

ok.

In that case Yeshua is from God , the real god that existed long before the OT .
The prophet of Islam
Your wish granted , didn't make sense that it could be the same to be honest .
The continuation of my gods laws can be seen throughout the western world and continues to evolve within UN resolutions
I like living in 2016 is today's date
Yours ?