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Theology

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farfignewton

the man!
Ok, new guy, first post outside the welcome thread... I know. Not supposed to start a new thread as your second post, but I like to rock the boat.

I’m looking for some good conversation and debating about the deeper philosophies about God, and I figured this would be a good place to start. So, *deep breath* here I go.

Please bear with me, I am longwinded, and would like to give a frame of reference by which I might be better understood, and this might take a bit.

Part 1: History.
I was born into a Christian home, raised as a Wesleyan, and for the longest time I believed that I had been saved, based on merit alone. Around my teenage years, I began to dwell into things darker, and obviously less than Christian. I’m not going into details, and please don’t ask me to. Lets just say that I wasn’t living as I had been taught to.

During this time of darkness in my life, I began to wonder what had become of the "good little christian boy" I had grown up to be. I decided that if this was all being a christian meant, then I wanted no part of it. I began to study. I have studied almost all of the world religions, including Buddhism, Islam, Muslim, Wicca, Hindu, and many secular and pagan religions that are less popular. I have also looked into many of the different forms of Christianity, all in an effort to find truth and something that would change me.

Now, I have chosen Christianity, but no domination. I have this thing about anything but the bible leading me.

Part 2: Thought process.
Now, in my studies, I have realized that most religions, to include Christianity, have very similar stories. Samson and his massive, god given strength can be compared to Hercules of Greek Mythology, or to Mighty Thor in the Norse culture. How to us God gave Jesus to save us from our sins, thereby granting eternal life, where the Egyptians believed that Ra gave his only mortal son to Anubus so that man might live free.

My question for the longest time was, "what makes Christians so right?" It would seem, looking at the world view, that we merely echo what other cultures have done. All religions have there supreme being. *Ra, Natrona, Odin, Zeus, etc* All religions seem to have some great martyr that saved the human race. *Thor, Buddha, Penelope, etc* So, what is it that makes us so right over the others?

Part 3: the question.
Now, you ask a Christian that question, and the answer you will most likely get is "because ours is right", said with enough conviction to mean that is all that matters. But what to say to the non-believers? If talking to an atheist, which I was almost for a long time, what proof can we offer that would tip the hand towards us? What concrete evidence could you give to a logical mind, as apposed to a spiritual one, that would lead to a conclusion of faith?

Now, I have my own answer to that question, and I believe it is solidly based, but as I said, I enjoy good conversation and debate, so I would like to see what others have to say. If your reading this, I mean YOU.

To me this is the ultimate question.

What concrete evidence could you give to a logical mind, as apposed to a spiritual one, that would lead to a conclusion of faith?
 
Aasimar

Aasimar

Atheist
farfignewton said:
What concrete evidence could you give to a logical mind, as apposed to a spiritual one, that would lead to a conclusion of faith?
Click to expand...

Physical, researchable, falsifiable evidence that faith reflects reality.

I suppose a counter question is in order, seeing as how you realize the similarities of your belief system and the countless dead religions of the ages, how can you expect a rational mind to respect yours as a viable option?
 
F

farfignewton

the man!
Aasimar said:
Physical, researchable, falsifiable evidence that faith reflects reality.

I suppose a counter question is in order, seeing as how you realize the similarities of your belief system and the countless dead religions of the ages, how can you expect a rational mind to respect yours as a viable option?
Click to expand...

Well, I am assuming that the person in question (Don’t you just love hypotheticals?) would be an open-minded person. Unfortunately, I know that the logic-minded person usually is anything but open-minded, as is the typical religious fanatic. (Huh... is ANYONE open-minded?)
I guess that an overly simple explanation would be to see which of all this similar religions came first, and assume that that one is the right one.... But its hard to decide which came first.
*cuts off natural long windedness*
I think the blunt answer to your question would be that by a rational mind, considering religion, *hate religion, how about the word "faith".. yes that’s much better* FAITH, would have to look to Christianity along side of Hindu, Buddhism, Muslim, and all the other main world religions based merely on the fact that they have been around so long, and perhaps one of them has something to offer.
 
GreenKepi

GreenKepi

Member
Farfignewton...without a belief in the Bible as being God's Word...(to me) there is no way to "really" say anything much in defense of my belief to a non-believer. It all boils down to is "you say"..."I say"..."that's your opinion"... "that's my opinion"...just look at all these threads! Wow...there's some really hard to follow ideas and opinions! I don't think I'm a uneducated-dummy; however, I get completely lost of some of these. The bottom-line is... "this Forum is sure interesting"!!!
 
astarath

astarath

Well-Known Member
GreenKepi said:
Farfignewton...without a belief in the Bible as being God's Word...(to me) there is no way to "really" say anything much in defense of my belief to a non-believer. It all boils down to is "you say"..."I say"..."that's your opinion"... "that's my opinion"...just look at all these threads! Wow...there's some really hard to follow ideas and opinions! I don't think I'm a uneducated-dummy; however, I get completely lost of some of these. The bottom-line is... "this Forum is sure interesting"!!!
Click to expand...

That's your opinion! LOL!!!:shout
 
F

farfignewton

the man!
lunamoth said:
We are "right' to the extent that we take Christ's love and healing out into the world.
Click to expand...

But are there any christians that have as much logic and reasoning applied to their thoughts as the anti-christians do? Or do we remain content behind our walls of mysticizm? I know that there are concrete facts that back up christianity, most require massive frame of refrance explainations and historys, but they are there. I am honestly looking for more than a "were right beacuse we have faith" argument. Blind faith is ignorance, and if thats all your faith is based on, Im sorry.

To my fellow christians that have not turned off their god given brains, let me hear from you. I Want to hear the reasoning you have, to see if it aligins with mine. Atheists and Pegans, please contribute as well. I hunger for a good discution, and a chalange of my belifes, that I might grow in knowlage and wisdom.
 
rojse

rojse

RF Addict
farfignewton said:
Well, I am assuming that the person in question (Don’t you just love hypotheticals?) would be an open-minded person. Unfortunately, I know that the logic-minded person usually is anything but open-minded, as is the typical religious fanatic. (Huh... is ANYONE open-minded?)
Click to expand...

There is not any open-minded person, so you are right. Everyone has their own personal idea as to what religion you should follow to reach god, and so forth. If you are an atheist, you say that God does not exist, because there is no tangible evidence that there is (for me, at least)

farfignewton said:
I guess that an overly simple explanation would be to see which of all this similar religions came first, and assume that that one is the right one.... But its hard to decide which came first.
*cuts off natural long windedness*
Click to expand...

Perhaps the first religion got it wrong, and another stumbled upon the truth later. Or perhaps the first religion's teachings changed over time, and the newer religions more adhere to the principles you are after. It is not cut so black and white.

And I am not going into the simplistic assumption that the majority must be right (oops.)

farfignewton said:
I think the blunt answer to your question would be that by a rational mind, considering religion, *hate religion, how about the word "faith".. yes that’s much better* FAITH, would have to look to Christianity along side of Hindu, Buddhism, Muslim, and all the other main world religions based merely on the fact that they have been around so long, and perhaps one of them has something to offer.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should examine some logical fallacies. Just because an idea is old does not make it the right way to do things. Our ancestors rode on horses, but we needed to change to cars because of the distances we travel, and the goods we carry. And before we learnt how to ride horses, we walked. Each time, the old idea was surpassed, because it did not meet our current needs.

I am not equating Christianity etc. with walking instead of riding a horse, or riding a horse instead of driving, but merely pointing out that just because something is old does not mean that it is the best way to do something.
 
R

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
rojse said:
Where did you pull the information that discusses such an amazing scientific breakthrough?
Click to expand...
It's science, rojse. The universe is expanding in all directions so the center is everywhere; it has no edge so its circumference is nowhere. It means you are standing at the center of the universe. It's science, yet it was a description of God long before it was a description of the cosmos.
 
crystalonyx

crystalonyx

Well-Known Member
Rolling_Stone said:
It's science, rojse. The universe is expanding in all directions so the center is everywhere; it has no edge so its circumference is nowhere. It means you are standing at the center of the universe. It's science, yet it was a description of God long before it was a description of the cosmos.
Click to expand...


There is no "center" of the universe, you can't get there from here.
 
Mr. Peanut

Mr. Peanut

Active Member
While there is an abundance of overwhelming evidence for Christianity, and many books and sites dedicated to showing forth these very truths, it is only when one searches these things for themselves, intently and dilligently searching for the truth, that one may find the answers. God says we will know him when we search for him with all our heart. The world, in their wisdom, having known God chose to reject God, so God used the foolishness of preaching to save those who have believed. I was fortunate that as a young man I was exposed to the Gospel message and being yet tender in heart and open to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, trusted Christ for salvation. As people grow older and harder of heart, they do not hear the gentle knocking of the Holy Spirit and are drawn away by the wisdom and logic of this world, which is foolishness to God, thus it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save us. The proofs are there, one must seek them out on their own and God will reveal them to them. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
 
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