Theists who believe in freewill?

[F1fan]

My water confers eternal life. Yours doesn't. That is why I prefer my water to your water.

The Abrahamic religions have done well by exploiting the biggest fear humans have, and that is mortality. Them promising immortality is seen by critical thinkers as immoral and even cruel. There is no evidence to support any claim of immortality.

Reason tells me to prefer my water to your water, since eternal life trumps anything your facts can offer me.

No it doesn’t. There is no reasonable conclusion that we are immortal.

 

[Nakosis]

Whatever we choose is according to our will since we chose it.
Our choices are God's will in the sense that God allows us to make them, but they are not necessarily what God wants us to choose.

Well sure, otherwise I'd assume that would negate the freewill part.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree that God's purpose for Earth is more than a plan, nor a change of mind. God's purpose is not really a plan at all, it is a purpose that God has had in mind from the very beginning. “God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it.”
The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

To me, the Great Golden Age is Jesus' coming Millennial Age when Jesus governs over Earth for a thousand years.
Jesus will bring ' healing ' to earth's nations - Revelation 22:2 - ALL of earth's nations.
Healing to the point that No one will say, " I am sick......" - Isaiah 33:24
A happy-and-healthy people and an Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Even 'enemy death ' will be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Abrahamic religions have done well by exploiting the biggest fear humans have, and that is mortality. Them promising immortality is seen by critical thinkers as immoral and even cruel. There is no evidence to support any claim of immortality.
No it doesn’t. There is no reasonable conclusion that we are immortal.

Even the angels are mortals. Sinner Satan will be ' destroyed ' by Jesus - Hebrews 2:14 B
Mortals Adam and Eve were offered Not immorality but offered everlasting life on Earth "IF" they obeyed God.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Abrahamic religions have done well by exploiting the biggest fear humans have, and that is mortality. Them promising immortality is seen by critical thinkers as immoral and even cruel. There is no evidence to support any claim of immortality.

What I believe is a common misconception among Christians, as noted in the post above, is that eternal life refers to living forever in a physical body on earth, but that is not what I believe it means.

Eternal life means nearness to God, and one can be near to God in this life and in the next life. I do not mean near geographically, I mean near in our heart, which is the seat of the soul and emotions.

Immortality is not the same as eternal life. All souls are immortal since all souls will continue to exist forever in the spiritual world after the physical body dies, but some souls will have eternal life and some souls won't have eternal life, because they will be distant from God.

You are correct in saying there is no way to prove immortality. It is a religious belief, not a known fact.

No it doesn’t. There is no reasonable conclusion that we are immortal.

People who don't believe their souls are immortal will just have to wait and find out after they die physically.
It is preferable to know ahead of time to avoid shock and confusion, but some people will never believe it till they experience it firsthand.

 

[F1fan]

Even the angels are mortals. Sinner Satan will be ' destroyed ' by Jesus - Hebrews 2:14 B
Mortals Adam and Eve were offered Not immorality but offered everlasting life on Earth "IF" they obeyed God.

You are citing stories, not facts. None of what you say here can be accepted as true, nor even plausible.

 

[F1fan]

What I believe is a common misconception among Christians, as noted in the post above, is that eternal life refers to living forever in a physical body on earth, but that is not what I believe it means.

Eternal life means nearness to God, and one can be near to God in this life and in the next life. I do not mean near geographically, I mean near in our heart, which is the seat of the soul and emotions.

Immortality is not the same as eternal life. All souls are immortal since all souls will continue to exist forever in the spiritual world after the physical body dies, but some souls will have eternal life and some souls won't have eternal life, because they will be distant from God.

You are correct in saying there is no way to prove immortality. It is a religious belief, not a known fact.

People who don't believe their souls are immortal will just have to wait and find out after they die physically.
It is preferable to know ahead of time to avoid shock and confusion, but some people will never believe it till they experience it firsthand.

You admit none of what you believe is factual, and that means it isn't truthful. Yet you decide to believe anyway. Do you REALLY believe all this? Do you have NO doubt about any of it?

 

[MonkeyFire]

God gave his angels free will but remember faith is naturally loyal to love, His Father.

 

[Trailblazer]

You admit none of what you believe is factual, and that means it isn't truthful. Yet you decide to believe anyway. Do you REALLY believe all this? Do you have NO doubt about any of it?

No, just because it isn't factual that does not mean it is not true. A belief can be either true or false.

I don't have a shadow of a doubt that what I stated is true. I do not need factual proof because I enough evidence that points to it being true, not only from my religion but from other sources that concur with my religion.

 

[F1fan]

No, just because it isn't factual that does not mean it is not true.

True means consistent with fact.

A belief can be either true or false.

And true belief has facts to justify it.

I don't have a shadow of a doubt that what I stated is true. I do not need factual proof because I enough evidence that points to it being true, not only from my religion but from other sources that concur with my religion.

Not a surprise.

 

[Trailblazer]

True means consistent with fact.

Not always. If a belief is in accord with reality it is true.

Truth is the property of being in accord with fact or reality. In everyday language, truth is typically ascribed to things that aim to represent reality or otherwise correspond to it, such as beliefs, propositions, and declarative sentences. Truth is usually held to be the opposite of falsehood.

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Truth

And true belief has facts to justify it.

The Baha'i Faith has facts to justify it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What I believe is a common misconception among Christians, as noted in the post above, is that eternal life refers to living forever in a physical body on earth, but that is not what I believe it means.
Eternal life means nearness to God, and one can be near to God in this life and in the next life. I do not mean near geographically, I mean near in our heart, which is the seat of the soul and emotions.
Immortality is not the same as eternal life. All souls are immortal since all souls will continue to exist forever in the spiritual world after the physical body dies, but some souls will have eternal life and some souls won't have eternal life, because they will be distant from God.
You are correct in saying there is no way to prove immortality. It is a religious belief, not a known fact.
People who don't believe their souls are immortal will just have to wait and find out after they die physically.
It is preferable to know ahead of time to avoid shock and confusion, but some people will never believe it till they experience it firsthand.

I find that Adam and Eve were offered eternal life (Not immortality) in a physical body as long as they listened to God.
So, yes, in the Bible immortality (death proof) is Not the same thing as everlasting life or eternal life as long as one obeys God.
Jesus taught 'what was ahead of time to avoid shock and confusion' and Jesus experienced what he taught firsthand.
Jesus taught at death there is only sleep at John 11:11-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which teach 'sleep' in death - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Thus, dead Jesus slept in death until his God resurrected dead sleeping Jesus back to life - Acts of the Apostles 3:15
As for the majority of dead mankind they remain dead until the last day (John 6:40,44) meaning Resurrection Day which is Jesus coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think that the introduction of algorithms as standard to the processing of web-based data and a wider understanding by the public of what this means, gives us a new and improved way of approaching the never-ending question of about the concept of free will vs. that of determinism.

If physical existence were to run by “code”, to learn from accumulated data and evolve accordingly, then the emergence of “free will” -as in decision making/agency/choice- would be its inevitable outcome.

I was discussing this in another forum where another member was saying that we have none at all and are dictated by brain. I think decision-making is part of the fuzzy logic of the brain. It gives us options. (I am a strong atheist)

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Baha'i Faith has facts to justify it.

Bahai faith has facts which justify it to Bahais and to no others.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

What I believe is a common misconception among Christians, as noted in the post above, is that eternal life refers to living forever in a physical body on earth, but that is not what I believe it means.

Eternal life means nearness to God, and one can be near to God in this life and in the next life. I do not mean near geographically, I mean near in our heart, which is the seat of the soul and emotions.

Immortality is not the same as eternal life. All souls are immortal since all souls will continue to exist forever in the spiritual world after the physical body dies, but some souls will have eternal life and some souls won't have eternal life, because they will be distant from God.

You are correct in saying there is no way to prove immortality. It is a religious belief, not a known fact.

People who don't believe their souls are immortal will just have to wait and find out after they die physically.
It is preferable to know ahead of time to avoid shock and confusion, but some people will never believe it till they experience it firsthand.

As a psychic medium, it is distressing and difficult for me to meet and speak with the spirits of Christians who are earthbound through no fault of their own. They are scared and confused because they are not in heaven with God and Jesus, where they expected to be after death. Some of these spirits even became angry and insisted that they had been misled into believing the Bible's teaching about what happens to people after they die. I've even met a few of these spirits who were quite confused as to why they weren't sleeping in their graves, believing that we were in the end times and they had missed the rapture. To make matters worse, the majority of these spirits were even more perplexed by the fact that I, a living person, could see them, hear them, and speak directly to them. I've already told you about the spirit of the young girl whom I persuaded to cross over almost a month ago (click here to read the post). And, as a psychic medium, I've been actively interacting with, communicating with, and convincing spirits to cross over for the past fifteen years, and I believe unequivocally that what the Bible teaches about what happens to people after they die is clearly inaccurate and extremely misleading. I have had a lifetime of experiences as a psychic medium and have had direct contact with earthbound spirits for the past fifteen years, so I have no doubt that what the Bible teaches about the afterlife (particularly Hebrews 9:27) is clearly inaccurate and misleading. To be honest, there isn't a single Christian alive who can convince me that their preferred interpretation or their church's preferred interpretation of the Bible about the afterlife is absolutely correct. A lifetime of firsthand experience as a psychic medium, combined with years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator, has clearly taught me otherwise.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

As a psychic medium, it is distressing and difficult for me to meet and speak with the spirits of Christians who are earthbound through no fault of their own. They are scared and confused because they are not in heaven with God and Jesus, where they expected to be after death. Some of these spirits even became angry and insisted that they had been misled into believing the Bible's teaching about what happens to people after they die. I've even met a few of these spirits who were quite confused as to why they weren't sleeping in their graves, believing that we were in the end times and they had missed the rapture. To make matters worse, the majority of these spirits were even more perplexed by the fact that I, a living person, could see them, hear them, and speak directly to them. I've already told you about the spirit of the young girl whom I persuaded to cross over almost a month ago (click here to read the post). And, as a psychic medium, I've been actively interacting with, communicating with, and convincing spirits to cross over for the past fifteen years, and I believe unequivocally that what the Bible teaches about what happens to people after they die is clearly inaccurate and extremely misleading. I have had a lifetime of experiences as a psychic medium and have had direct contact with earthbound spirits for the past fifteen years, so I have no doubt that what the Bible teaches about the afterlife (particularly Hebrews 9:27) is clearly inaccurate and misleading. To be honest, there isn't a single Christian alive who can convince me that their preferred interpretation or their church's preferred interpretation of the Bible about the afterlife is absolutely correct. A lifetime of firsthand experience as a psychic medium, combined with years of experience as a seasoned paranormal investigator, has clearly taught me otherwise.

Interesting.
Paranormal experiences are too common to not be considered part of human reality. Yet, I think it possible for our understanding of what we encounter, to be misinterpretations too (I have not read your interpretations, so that’s not a comment to you personally).

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Interesting.
Paranormal experiences are too common to not be considered part of human reality. Yet, I think it possible for our understanding of what we encounter, to be misinterpretations too (I have not read your interpretations, so that’s not a comment to you personally).

Humbly,
Hermit

Yes, you are correct in thinking that sometimes people mistake a natural occurrence for a paranormal encounter. But, as I stated in another thread (read it here), as a psychic medium and a sensitive, I have the advantage of being able to tell at any given time if there are one or more human spirits around. In case you're interested, you can read about some of my personal experiences as a psychic medium in another previous post here. I also want to say again that I won't argue or debate with anyone about any of my firsthand experiences as a psychic medium and a paranormal investigator (see my post here).

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Yes, you are correct in thinking that sometimes people mistake a natural occurrence for a paranormal encounter. But, as I stated in another thread (read it here), as a psychic medium and a sensitive, I have the advantage of being able to tell at any given time if there are one or more human spirits around. In case you're interested, you can read about some of my personal experiences as a psychic medium in another previous post here. I also want to say again that I won't argue or debate with anyone about any of my firsthand experiences as a psychic medium and a paranormal investigator (see my post here).

Thank you Sgt. Pepper,
I’m happy to read a bit when I get a chance.

Also, just to clarify: though I’m sure that normal phenomena sometimes is mistaken for paranormal, that was not really what I was talking about in my previous comment. I was more referring to our interpretations of the [spiritual] meaning of a particular paranormal experience - I think, at times, we can be wrong about what we think the experience suggests about the immaterial.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Trailblazer]

Paranormal experiences are too common to not be considered part of human reality.

Can you explain what you mean by paranormal experiences? I don't think that most people have the kind of paranormal experiences @Sgt. Pepper has, so I don't think experiences like hers are very common.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I was discussing this in another forum where another member was saying that we have none at all and are dictated by brain. I think decision-making is part of the fuzzy logic of the brain. It gives us options. (I am a strong atheist)

I like how you say 'decision-making is part of the fuzzy logic of the brain.'
To me the answer lies in the account about Adam and Satan.
They started out with 'un-fuzzy' logic of their brains, but they had options open to them.
In order for the brain to work right it must be open like a parachute .
Problem was they chose to open their brains so wide to the point that one could think their brains fell out !
They began thinking outside of righteousness by their own choice.
Sad to say we were all born 'after' father Adam turned himself into a man-made sinner.
For that reason, it is No wonder to me that we have fuzzy logic of the brain and need clear help.
I find that clear help to be found in the teachings of Jesus. Paradisical Eden lost, to paradisical Eden-like conditions will be regained.
Paradisical Earth will be as described in Isaiah's 35th chapter.