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Theists: What would a godless universe look like?
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
Well, what was the warning given to A&E? Death. Pretty strong. Wouldn't you say?
Really though, their love for their Father -- who'd given them everything -- should have been the main motivating factor.
I mean, nothing that existed in that garden was harmful! That's why Eve went straight up to that serpent. It was all Isaiah 11:6-9, back then.
Take care.
syo
Well-Known Member
Reality.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yes, but you have to admit that a natural defence would have been much better. We have plenty of them, already. For instance, when something stinks, we do not eat it, no matter how delicious it looks. And we feel naturally disgusted at the very thought of eating repelling things, like a rotting dead body, for instance. And even with all these natural defences, I do not feel my free will is impinged in any significant way.
But sin? I mean, why not sinning? Most of what you consider sin is probably great fun. And don't forget that most people in history never heard of your Bible. Never heard of the Father, the Son, and all that story. So, they have no idea they were sinning.
So, I think that a better design would have improved efficiency a lot, and spared us from all that cosmic drama. Not to speak of potentially sparing also the brief loss of life of the designer's own son. I mean, who designs things so badly that he needs to send his own son in a short death state to correct it, after having tried with almost total annihilation (and failed).
If you guys insist that this whole thing is a design, I would not call it ID. Looks more like SD to me.
Ciao
- viole
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Colt
Well-Known Member
It wouldn't exist, effect couldn't exist without cause. "There is but one uncaused Cause in the whole universe." UB 1955
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
That is not necessarily God in a theological sense.
Colt
Well-Known Member
God as the Unqualified Absolute. The I AM.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
That is your belief or faith.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Its a fact, the Universe has a source. That one calls it God, which isn't a proper name, is a preference, but that doesn't negate the fact the effects must have a cause.
Ancient outdated apologetic arguments do not work and are so circular they bite you in the butt.
It is possible that Natural Laws and natural processes are eternal and the cause of our physical existence. There is no evidence of a definitive beginning to our physical existence
I believe God is the 'Source of everything some call God(s), but beyond that we cannot determine definitively that our physical existence had a beginning.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Natural laws come from God, the I AM. Atheism is outdated.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
We don't know that. Now it could be that your position is correct, but it is unknowable as far as I can tell.
OP: What would a godless universe look like?
Well, what would a Hubert-less arm-of-Hubert look like?
What would a Hubert-less expression-of-Hubert look like?
What would a Hubert-less speech or post-of-Hubert look like?
What would a Hubert-less dance-of-Hubert look like?
The Universe is God's dance, dream, expression.
Well, what would a Hubert-less arm-of-Hubert look like?
What would a Hubert-less expression-of-Hubert look like?
What would a Hubert-less speech or post-of-Hubert look like?
What would a Hubert-less dance-of-Hubert look like?
The Universe is God's dance, dream, expression.
I also believe the Natural Laws come from God, but there is no objective evidence to support this. It is a matter of belief.
Did not address the post. What would a godless universe look like? The same as a universe with God.
Please respond to the previous post, without the simple assertions of belief..
"Effect can't exist without cause" vs an "uncaused cause."
Have you read Orwell? Do you know what "doublethink" is?
I suspect those who insist the universe works by the same planned, intentional, cause-and-effect they see in human endeavors don't know much about physics. It's an unfounded extrapolation.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Take the existential I AM-God out of the equation, you are still left with an existential infinity.
Colt
Well-Known Member
A universe without a source wouldn't exist (call that source what you like). The universe cannot be explained by finites without acknowledging Infinites.
3:6.3 (53.1) All religious philosophy, sooner or later, arrives at the concept of unified universe rule, of one God. Universe causes cannot be lower than universe effects. The source of the streams of universe life and of the cosmic mind must be above the levels of their manifestation. The human mind cannot be consistently explained in terms of the lower orders of existence. Man’s mind can be truly comprehended only by recognizing the reality of higher orders of thought and purposive will. Man as a moral being is inexplicable unless the reality of the Universal Father is acknowledged.
3:6.4 (53.2) The mechanistic philosopher professes to reject the idea of a universal and sovereign will, the very sovereign will whose activity in the elaboration of universe laws he so deeply reverences. What unintended homage the mechanist pays the law-Creator when he conceives such laws to be self-acting and self-explanatory!" UB 1955
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yes, but it is a philosophical notion. It says nothing about the theology or religious aspects.