Audie
Veteran Member
"imagine" is the operative word all right.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Theist's the Hard Truth
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
"imagine" is the operative word all right.
I understand what you are attempting to show. The conscious mind can't observe itself. Therefore there is nothing materialistic to observe. How conscious awareness exists is difficult to rationalize.
So I can't say you are wrong, only I choose to see it for now in materialistic terms. That may change but for now I see no necessity to jump to a non-materialistic conclusion.
Or, one could choose to learn about space aliens. There are folks about certain that space aliens are abducting humans, controlling our thoughts.
Spent most of my life learning about different concepts of God. Certainty depends a lot on one's willingness to believe in something. Certainty really not as good an indicator of truth as most think it is.
74x12
Well-Known Member
You don't choose God; He chooses you. If you know about Him it's because He told you. We don't need anyone to teach us the truth of God or who is God.
As for good and evil; I know better than most of you anyway. But, that's not hard.
Is it good or evil to drown everyone? Lol, well according to Nakosis, good and evil are relative and largely based on what we as individuals think about it. So who is the judge that decides what is good or evil? You?
Is it you that presides in judgment over the very gods?
Augustus
…
And considering that you considered "The kind of people who belong to atheist societies" as "not clear on being selective of certain atheists", I consider that you don't really know what you are talking about.
Audie
Veteran Member
You don't choose God; He chooses you. If you know about Him it's because He told you. We don't need anyone to teach us the truth of God or who is God.
As for good and evil; I know better than most of you anyway. But, that's not hard.
Is it good or evil to drown everyone? Lol, well according to Nakosis, good and evil are relative and largely based on what we as individuals think about it. So who is the judge that decides what is good or evil? You?
Is it you that presides in judgment over the very gods?
We don't need anyone to teach us the truth of God or who is God.
Who might "we" be? Just the ones who happen to
agree with your cult? Mormons not included? JW?
As for good and evil, and what you know-
Clearly you dont want to commit yourself directly to
saying it is ok to chop up babies. Instead, make it
something about me.
That is not good, or evil of you; is is shameful.
You remind me of a "believer" elsewhere who said
he prays daily for Word from God that it is time to
start killing the atheists.
"Would you hang me from a lamppost?" I asked.
"If God so directs me, yes." was the answer.
He wont need anyone to tell him if it is time, or
if it is good or evil The guy will know it because,
as with you, "He"will tell him about it.
Audie
Veteran Member
And considering that you considered "The kind of people who belong to atheist societies" as "not clear on being selective of certain atheists", I consider that you don't really know what you are talking about.
Well, it may be that if you keep talking to
yourself you will get yourself
straightened out Let us know if it works!
The title is reference in the linked article. I think it is related to theism and likely atheism as well. Otherwise sure, no one has any obligation to respond to something they find not relevant.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Haha ... time to start killing atheists ... it's crazy.
People like that are nuts. My God would not tell me to kill atheists or hang them from lampposts. God made life, not death. Death is from transgression of the Word of God.
There are millions of people who think they know God but do not. And there are millions who think they know God is not real; but they are wrong.
God spoke all things into existence. Whatever is sin; the fire breaks out of it; because it has gone against the Word of creation that is holding it together. So the counsel of God is that we should purge ourselves of whatever is flammable; so we will not burn.
I'm not making it about you. Atheists always like to accuse God of wrongdoing but also usually won't admit there is objective morality. I don't see a need to answer them further; until they can satisfactorily address this contradiction in their POV.
Maybe, but IMO, it's hard to consciously know what actually lies outside the subconscious mind.
I had a friend who was an engineer who claimed that all of his tough problems he solved while he was sleeping. I heard that everything we've ever experience gets recorded by the subconscious mind. Therefore it obviously know a thousand times more than we will ever be consciously aware of.
As I see it, conscious awareness, what most consider the self is pretty insignificant to the individual as a whole. Like a governor on an engine, just there to keep the mind from overheating.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Space aliens raise a lot of questions though. If they are real then who made them? And, who will save you from them?
Trusting in your fellow man is stupid; because they're just as likely to enslave you or do you wrong as the aliens are. So, people who trust in scientists to save them; well then good luck! I think the government will end up with control of the technology and so you'll end up in 1984 or A Brave New World or something worse.
Learning about concepts about God is like reading a manual about flying a plane but never flying. It's not hands on experience. So, you've never actually looked for God from the heart. God puts it in some people to look for God with all their heart.
Audie
Veteran Member
Haha ... time to start killing atheists ... it's crazy.
My God would not tell me to kill atheists or hang them from lampposts. God made life, not death. Death is from transgression of the Word of God.
There are millions of people who think they know God but do not. And there are millions who think they know God is not real; but they are wrong.
God spoke all things into existence. Whatever is sin; the fire breaks out of it; because it has gone against the Word of creation that is holding it together. So the counsel of God is that we should purge ourselves of whatever is flammable; so we will not burn.
I'm not making it about you. Atheists always like to accuse God of wrongdoing but also usually won't admit there is objective morality. I don't see a need to answer them further; until they can satisfactorily address this contradiction in their POV.
My God would not tell me to kill atheists or hang them from lampposts. God made life, not death. Death is from transgression of the Word of God.
"Your" god is right. The one you made up to suit
you.
Which 'god" was it that supposedly sent an angel to
do his dirty work in Egypt, killing innocent babies?
You think you see a contradiction in atheist thinking,
about the behaviour of "god" but you do not.
To an atheist, god is a character in a book a story.
Captain hook is a pirate, in a book, he is a badguy.
In the bible, "god" is a psycho monster.
The contradiction is in your own thinking.
All that about how god is good, made life,
but is also the author of mass genocide,
and killing babies with a sword. You guys
excuse it coz he gets to make the rules.
There are millions of people who think they know God but do not.
But you do and god told you so. Right.
I was thinking of the more mundane and obvious stuff like snow to a person born and raised in the tropics. Clearly, to me anyway, it's outside his/her subconscious. We have a renter right now (I'm in Edmonton, Canada) from Delhi, first time out of India. So a lot of his experiences are new to him, old hat to me. It's interesting watching him figure things out.
Augustus
…
The universe (or the multiverse) seems to be almost like a living organism to me. So the presence of a coherent and animate will within it seems plausible. A sufficiently complex mind may vaguely sense this animate presence in everything and speculate on it.
In the 19 th century there was a sense that simple point like billiard ball particles bumping on each other will explain everything. But today with QM, Relativity or String Theory we see that complex structure exists all the way down to the very roots of space-time-matter fabric. At what point would we say that the world is complex enough, rich enough and dynamic enough to be considered a Being itself? Are we beings? We certainly experience ourselves as such. But a cell inside my body has no idea about that does it? How would a cell go about determining, if it could, whether the body it is inhabiting has a conscious and experiential self or not ?
Audie
Veteran Member
Audie
Veteran Member
i was 12 first time I saw snow. I liked it, at first anyway.
Are the individual cells of our body intelligent/self aware to some degree?
Sure we maybe the "cells" of some super entity, but I'd suspect we have about as much chance of understanding such an entity as any of the cells of our body have understanding our body's self aware consciousness. Billions of cells die in your body every day. How much concern/compassion do you have for each individual cell?
No reason to think if such a "super entity" did exist that it have any more concern for one of us then you have for an individual cell among the billions of cells the die each day in your own body.
Maybe the cells of you body have some feeling they are part of a bigger organism that has a plan for them all. Do you? Do you have a plan for the billions that die to bring them back or somehow continue their existence?
Ok, but I wouldn't expect someone who's never experienced snow to come up with some new revelation about snow. I'm just saying there is a lot we don't consciously know that our subconscious mind does. So I don't see it as anything unusual for our subconscious mind to come up with new, profound, revolutionary ideas, thoughts, concepts on it's own without conscious intervention or awareness.
I look for God and found God many times. When ever I went looking, God was there in whatever form I imagine at the time God should be in. I also agree that if a person looks for God with all their heart they will find the God they seek. At this point I've found God so many times, finding God is simple.
I'm actually surprised there are folks who say they've never found God. However I'm willing to presume that not everyone's brain works exactly the same way.
Maybe you've found God once or twice but after a dozen times you start to wonder if God could be whatever you wanted God to be. If you could create your own God and experience a relation with the God you've created just as real, meaningful and fulfilling as any of the Gods you've been told by others that exist.
All I have to do is plant the ideas and willingness to believe into my subconscious mind and God becomes a reality in my experience. Not that hard once you've done it a few time. For most I suspect this usually occurs at a subconscious level. Folks aren't even aware of creating God. I've just had it done enough, went through the process enough times, I can consciously "will" it.
So who is God's creator. I know I am. I suspect you are as well. You're just not aware of the process.