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(Theists Only) Why do you think atheists reject the existence of deities?

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I have always been someone who was intensely interested in the occult and supernatural, so the existence of deities was never questioned. It's just something that I've always naturally believed in.

I've been on a journey from becoming a monotheist (Christian) to polytheist, and never once did I ever doubt the existence of the gods. It just does not register in me. It may sound arrogant (or even delusional!) but I can feel that they are real. To me, the gods are just as real as the earth and water around me.

I was watching a movie/documentary called 'The Atheist Delusion' (proselytizing is not something I support), and one question the man asked to the atheists was why they didn't believe in the Christian god. He suggested that it was their fear of responsibility to him. That question seemed rather profound and grounded in a truth they probably don't want to confront.

I also get the feeling from many of them that they don't like the idea of someone/thing greater than them having power over them. It's a typical rebellion in the oldest of mythological cycles (oh, the irony).

So, what does everyone else think?
One need only read the condescending and myopically dangerous contributions to this thread from the 'believers'(including your op) to reasonability formulate why a person might be vocal about their disbelief.

It isn't the beliefs themselves that are the problem, it is the behaviour of the believers themselves.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
and the more complex reply would be.....

control
I think it's an oversimplification to suggest that. Some? Sure. But many people look to religion for answers and guidance. I'm OK with that and so are they.

That being said, most wars, religious and otherwise can be traced to nothing but a territorial imperative: control. Unfortunately, it's a part of our DNA to protect what we see as ours. Some believe that everything should belong to them.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
it is the behaviour of the believers themselves.
The converse can also be true. The behavior of some disbelievers is just as horrible. You can't judge a group of people on just a fraction of the sample. Theism and atheism are often adopted to justify feelings and attitudes. In this respect, either can be a man made religion.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
One thing I have noticed, anecdotally but invariably, atheists have bad relationships with their fathers. I can't think of a single exception, including myself. I was an atheist when I was younger, and later improved my relationship with my father and God

I've always had a great relationship with my dad even when I was an atheist. Still do, as a matter of fact.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I assume you don't think Humanism is awful, but it is also faith based.
Certainly there are things we believe, but I would not call it "faith based."

Humanists believe (but without the idea of "faith") that this life is the only life we have, that the universe is a natural phenomenon with no supernatural side, and that we can live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity. We believe this because although humans have studied our world with enormous thoroughness, we've never once actually encountered anything that might be called supernatural, and have discovered countless natural explanations for the phenomena we observe.

Humanist trust to the scientific method, evidence, and reason to discover truths about the universe and we place human welfare and happiness at the centre of our ethical decision making.

But that is not faith.
I'm not even sure what an evidence based ideology would look like. We just like narratives and fit reality to our favourites.
I just told you: look around, observe nature, use the evidence presented to you and use reason only to understand that evidence -- don't make things up just to fit. Sometimes, the answer really is "I don't know."
 

Maponos

Welcome to the Opera
Speaking of which, to join private forums, you go here: https://www.religiousforums.com/account/join-user-groups

The staff then need to approve those join requests. In this space we would actually enforce the "theists only" thing, whereas here it isn't too likely we're going to do that. There are also other private forums, including an "atheists only" one.
I had no idea those groups existed before now.

I also posted this thread in the theism section to reach as many theistic users as I could.

To get back on topic..

Atheists also say (as we've witnessed) that it's just a matter of evidence to them. But why?

Many people in the world do not consider themselves religious but they also do not consider themselves atheists either. These people often say that they cannot deny that there are greater powers than us.

This shows that there is a basic human empathy in believing in something greater than us, but why are atheists so adamant about having concrete evidence?

I think it has to do with control and having something measurable. It's a desire to know exactly how something works so that it can be replicated and controlled.

Since faith and divinity do not operate on these terms, they cannot be replicated or controlled in the way these people want them to be. Basically, it's an endless search for conventional answers where there are none.

Many great scientists are actually not atheists. I think that as they attain more knowledge, they realize that there are power far greater than us and so reject atheistic doctrines (there have been prominent atheists who have done this).

Perhaps it all stems from a deeper sense of insecurity.
 
The converse can also be true. The behavior of some disbelievers is just as horrible. You can't judge a group of people on just a fraction of the sample. Theism and atheism are often adopted to justify feelings and attitudes. In this respect, either can be a man made religion.
Sure, but that wasn't the question. Besides, how many wars have been started in the name of 'no god'? How many heads sawn off? When's the last time anyone blew themselves up in the name of atheism? Have you ever had a knock at your door or been accosted on the street only to be browbeaten and preached at regarding your grave mistake in not choosing 'no god'?

Where are the strict codes of behaviour written for and adhered to, often to the widespread physical detriment of anyone who happens to not be a non-believever, by non believers?

These things aren't equal opposites. One is a set of often dangerous, usually judgemental, and always partisan beliefs that cause artificial divides, while the other is simply not partaking of that particular cup.
 

Maponos

Welcome to the Opera
I didn't want to have to do this, but I shall henceforth be reporting posts that do not belong in this thread (as I have made clear in the thread's title).

I must reiterate the thread's title in that this isn't about religions but the gods themselves.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It's an interesting point, by definition an a-theist position is more about being against the concept of God than defending any other belief on it's own merits.
Nonsense. Atheism isn't a position. And it isn't about being against the concept of God -- only of accepting what appears so completely obvious -- that there isn't one.
One thing I have noticed, anecdotally but invariably, atheists have bad relationships with their fathers. I can't think of a single exception, including myself. I was an atheist when I was younger, and later improved my relationship with my father and God
Again, nonsense. I just went to the 4th birthday party of a very good atheist friend (one of my best friends), who has a terrific relationship with his son -- and with his father, who I also know quite well and who, while also being atheist, had a superlative relationship with HIS father until he died. In fact, most of the atheists that I know -- and I know many -- enjoy quite good relationships with their fathers, or did while they lived.
 

Aiviu

Active Member
To the atheists posting in this thread, please respect that this is a thread for theists only.

I think some people are confusing doctrines with deities. Deities exist independently of doctrines.

Seriously. Did you meant me?
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Besides, how many wars have been started in the name of 'no god'?
You're kidding right? Look at the purges of Russia and of China. War is not confined to theists. Look at the Vietnam war. What God started that war?

Look at the entirety of the OT. How often did the the authors suggest that those wars were God's Idea? Look at the war in Iraq. Shrub told us that God led him to wage that war. Religion might be used as an excuse, but rarely can it be attributed to such power grabs. Usually, they wage war in spite of their religion.
 
You're kidding right? Look at the purges of Russia and of China. War is not confined to theists. Look at the Vietnam war. What God started that war?
Now now let's not start being disingenuous. Nobody said all wars are started because of religion. Yet by the same token, none of those examples describe events done in the name of 'no god'. Yes religion has been outlawed by different communist regimes and dictatorships throughout history for brief periods, but when the history tells us the reasons for that usually involved the regimes viewing organized bodies like that to be a threat and a source of destabilization, not because of the glory of not-god.
Look at the entirety of the OT. How often did the the authors suggest that those wars were God's Idea? Look at the war in Iraq. Shrub told us that God led him to wage that war.
It doesn't really matter what one particular character in the book said. The book is a body of dogmas that can and do create certain types of behaviours. The fixation of religious people on the yhvh character is neither here nor there.
 

miodrag

Member
...the man asked to the atheists was why they didn't believe in the Christian god.

There are many reasons for being an atheist, since it is personal. For this occassion, I will single out this one: atheists were offended by theist's ignorance and/or incompetence to make the difference in our world. And then decided "it could not possibly be so". So, it comes from experience. Materialism, intelligence or logic alone would not suffice for becoming an atheist, at least not today. The progress of physics in the last hundred years, and the quantum theory in particular, opens the door for metaphysics. Observer or measuring (which I read as: acts of consciousness) collapses the wave function - this imply that consciousness is fundamental for the world being organized like it is, making it naive to still believe that consciousness is a derivative of matter. This is just one step away from concluding that spirit is above matter. That conclusion is only expected from an impartial and learned modern observer. But that is not what we have, I guess mostly because religion not being as logical, consistent and true as it was expected to be by modern critical audience. Religion is still in the Middle Ages, far behind the modern standard to think critically.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Christianity is revealed. Not everyone can see God, just like many people can't see the difference between red and green. I can't see ultra violet or infrared, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I've noticed something about many of your comments... they lack real substance. They are nice metaphors or analogies, but they really do nothing to further your points.

If you were genuinely trying to make an argument regarding God's existence, and you stated what you implied above in plain terms, it would read like this: "Well, you can't see ultra violet light, but it exists - in the same way you can't see God, and so He exists." where do you think talk like that would get you? I mean honestly?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I think it's an oversimplification to suggest that. Some? Sure. But many people look to religion for answers and guidance. I'm OK with that and so are they.

That being said, most wars, religious and otherwise can be traced to nothing but a territorial imperative: control. Unfortunately, it's a part of our DNA to protect what we see as ours. Some believe that everything should belong to them.
and God gave Man dominion
(Day Six)
and it's been a control issue ever since
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I didn't want to have to do this, but I shall henceforth be reporting posts that do not belong in this thread (as I have made clear in the thread's title).

I must reiterate the thread's title in that this isn't about religions but the gods themselves.
and God gave Man dominion

not religion
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
This statement of "fact" that you just provided is why atheists sometimes react the way that they do...

Simple challenge
Show me a single theistic argument, ever, in the history of theistic arguments, that definitively posits god as a possibility. Is there anything, anywhere, which proves that gods exist?

...?

I'll wager that even in your burgeoning polytheism you'll admit that there are gods (or at least god concepts) that you don't believe in. You and I agree in our disbelief of those deities. The only difference between you and I is that you have particular pet gods that you choose to hold on to. You obviously have the ability to rationalize some deities as being great inventions of cultural fictions - but you stop using that discernment when it comes to your gods of choice.

Am I right or am I right?

Atheists simply take that process one step further.

Any theistic opinion for why atheists don't believe in god(s) is going to be lacking. It will tell you a lot about the poster, but very little about Atheism. Don't ask a Mathematician to explain biology to you. Ask a biologist.
and a non-believer is more qualified to explain faith?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
and a non-believer is more qualified to explain faith?

Didn't you know? We established this just the other day in some other thread that only atheists are proper and correct authorities about theists, theism, religion, and theology. It was never satisfactorily explained why this is the case, but there you go. What we theists say doesn't matter. We're not qualified to talk about what we do. :D

At any rate, with respect to why atheists reject the gods, I'd rather they speak for themselves. Can I conjecture about what I observe as a theist? Sure. Do I feel comfortable doing that outside of the Theists Only private forum? Not really. So unless a thread goes there, I'm going to hold my peace, yo.
 
we can live ethical and fulfilling lives on the basis of reason and humanity.

use the evidence presented to you and use reason only to understand that evidence

That's some of the faith based stuff I'm talking about. The human animal doesn't work that way unfortunately.

Add in universalism and a progressive view of history, Humanism is no more 'evidence based' that the Christianity from which it is clearly derived.

A purely 'evidence based' worldview would not be a very pretty thing given that we are not really a very pretty species.
 
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