Theists' explanation for the Presence of God, in Less than 20 Words

[Unveiled Artist]

I didn't have a choice. I had a vision and woke up in bed late at night and I knew absolutely, positively, without any doubt that God exists.

Before the vision I told people I was an atheist and I argued with people using all the same arguments atheists make but, really, I think deep down I did believe in God, I just didn't like Him.

Knowing God exists didn't answer all the other questions I had so I went looking. After many years I found the answers and I realized that people mostly believe what they WANT to believe regardless of the evidence.

Pretty much. They do try to find evidence but I think it's just in response to some atheists opposition of needing proof. If there wasn't a fight, most theist probably wouldn't question that they don't have objective evidence. It's truly not important.

The experience part, I never had that to identify the result as god and not something else. Probably cause I wasn't introduced to the word/concept till later in life. Even then, it's a splish splash of interpretations. No one seems to know the definition so....

but yeah, experience usually is the key more than physical evidence. That's the pattern I noticed.

 

[Super Universe]

Strikeout! Three responses, no answers.

What is it that makes you refuse to answer any questions, while insisting that everybody else does?

I had to rebuild a 350 engine and put it in my Vega and narrow the Ford 9" rear end in time to make a drag race. What did you accomplish in those 38 minutes? I bet nothing.

 

[George-ananda]

God/Brahman is pure eternal consciousness. Consciousness is his presence. (since I have eleven characters left) God is the consciousness in all living things,

 

[Polymath257]

Research virtual particles. After you're done, where do the virtual particles come from?

They are aspect of the quantum fluctuations that happen naturally and probabilistically.

When you turn on a generator, where do the electrons come from?

From the material in the wires: there are electrons around every atom.

Where did the big bang come from?

Why do you think it came from anywhere? Like the virtual particles, it is likely uncaused.

 

[Super Universe]

They are aspect of the quantum fluctuations that happen naturally and probabilistically.


From the material in the wires: there are electrons around every atom.



Why do you think it came from anywhere? Like the virtual particles, it is likely uncaused.

That does not answer the question. Where do they come from?

Knowing the force of gravity doesn't explain where it comes from.

A hunting dog knows that usually after a very loud noise a bird falls from the sky but he can't explain how the gun or ammunition work. To the dog there is a probabilistic chance that a bird will fall from the sky after the loud sound. Probability means "we don't really know" but it seems to follow this math.

How does the atom refill with more electrons? Where do they come from?

I know the big bang did not come from anywhere because gravity would never allow the big bang to happen.

If the virtual particles are uncaused then how come God can't be uncaused? Please show your math.

 

[Polymath257]

That does not answer the question. Where do they come from?

Knowing the force of gravity doesn't explain where it comes from.

Well, gravity is a curvature of spacetime produced, in a very specific way, from the density of mass, energy, momentum, and stress in a region.

A hunting dog knows that usually after a very loud noise a bird falls from the sky but he can't explain how the gun or ammunition work. To the dog there is a probabilistic chance that a bird will fall from the sky after the loud sound. Probability means "we don't really know" but it seems to follow this math.

How does the atom refill with more electrons? Where do they come from?

Other atoms. It's a circuit. The total number of electrons doesn't change.

I know the big bang did not come from anywhere because gravity would never allow the big bang to happen.

If the virtual particles are uncaused then how come God can't be uncaused? Please show your math.

I never said that God can't be uncaused. I *have* said that there is no reason to assume a deity given that the universe itself is likely uncaused.

 

[bobhikes]

Let me read theists' explanation for the presence of God, in less than 20 words.

I am

 

[Super Universe]

Well, gravity is a curvature of spacetime produced, in a very specific way, from the density of mass, energy, momentum, and stress in a region.



Other atoms. It's a circuit. The total number of electrons doesn't change.



I never said that God can't be uncaused. I *have* said that there is no reason to assume a deity given that the universe itself is likely uncaused.

So how does gravity come from an atom? I know you don't know.

So the atoms recharge endlessly with electrons? So the electrons are uncaused energy?

You never said that God can't be uncaused just that there is no reason to assume a deity given that the universe is likely uncaused? So God could possibly be uncaused, thus, you, a math professor, just proved to atheists where God could have come from.

 

[McBell]

All you are doing is dismissing science fact and logic for "I know you are but what am I?"

I can not dismiss something you have not presented.

Care to try again?

 

[Super Universe]

I can not dismiss something you have not presented.

Care to try again?

Boring...

 

[McBell]

Boring...

I will take that as a no.

Have a nice day.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm not a theist, but it seems to me limiting an argument for such a complicated and nuanced topic as theology is to both invite poor reasoning and a boxing match with one hand tied behind the responder's back.

It turns a potentially discussion-inducing question into a competition about who can be the most glib.

I agree, But the thread seems to be a sort of parody of another thread.

Atheists' explanation for the presence of babies and roses, in less than 20 words.

 

[ecco]

Research virtual particles. After you're done, where do the virtual particles come from?

When you turn on a generator, where do the electrons come from?

Where did the big bang come from?

Oh Great Leader, why does the big mountain now spew how rocks and ash?
Because God is angry.

Oh Great Leader, why do the locusts eat all of our corn?
Because God is angry.

Oh Great Leader, where did we all come from?
God made us.

It's always been a way to explain those things we don't know at the time. It should be obvious to any rational person that those explanations have always been wrong.

 

[ecco]

Nothing comes from nothing.
For every effect there has to be a cause.
Complexity and purpose require intelligence and planning.

Where did your God come from?
What was the cause of your God?
Your God is extremely complex. You believe your God has a purpose. What intelligence and planning went into the creation of your God?

 

[atanu]

Let me read theists' explanation for the presence of God, in less than 20 words.

God-Brahman is defined as existence-consciousness. I can not deny It.

 

[Polymath257]

So how does gravity come from an atom? I know you don't know.

G_{mu,nu} = 8(pi)G/c^2 T_{mu,nu}

So the atoms recharge endlessly with electrons? So the electrons are uncaused energy?

No. No electrons are lost. They just move around (in AC, they move back and forth).

You never said that God can't be uncaused just that there is no reason to assume a deity given that the universe is likely uncaused? So God could possibly be uncaused, thus, you, a math professor, just proved to atheists where God could have come from.

Well, since you accept that God can be uncaused, can you accept that the universe might be uncaused? And, in that case, the first cause argument for the existence of God fails?

 

[Super Universe]

G_{mu,nu} = 8(pi)G/c^2 T_{mu,nu}



No. No electrons are lost. They just move around (in AC, they move back and forth).



Well, since you accept that God can be uncaused, can you accept that the universe might be uncaused? And, in that case, the first cause argument for the existence of God fails?

Exactly. You don't know where gravity comes from but you don't want to say you don't know so you post the force of gravity.

No electrons are lost, they just move around? That's AC, how about in DC?

I don't accept that God can be uncaused. God created Himself but primitive atheists won't accept that but if you explain to them that there are things that modern science accepts as being uncaused they won't go against modern science.

 

[Polymath257]

Exactly. You don't know where gravity comes from but you don't want to say you don't know so you post the force of gravity.

It 'comes from' mass, energy, momentum, etc which curve spacetime.

I think you are expecting a mechanistic explanation. Well, such are rather out of date these days. Mechanical devices are what are explained, not the explanation.

No electrons are lost, they just move around? That's AC, how about in DC?

Again, you always need to close the circuit. The electrons move between the atoms. No electrons are made or destroyed in that process.

I don't accept that God can be uncaused. God created Himself but primitive atheists won't accept that but if you explain to them that there are things that modern science accepts as being uncaused they won't go against modern science.

But, and this is crucial, causes only are meaningful *within* the universe. They are an aspect of natural law. Even talking about causality outside of the universe (and time) is a mistake.

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I don't accept that God can be uncaused. God created Himself but primitive atheists won't accept that but if you explain to them that there are things that modern science accepts as being uncaused they won't go against modern science.

That's logically incoherent. In order to create himself, God would need to exist, in which case he wouldn't need to create himself because he would already exist.

 

[Super Universe]

It 'comes from' mass, energy, momentum, etc which curve spacetime.

I think you are expecting a mechanistic explanation. Well, such are rather out of date these days. Mechanical devices are what are explained, not the explanation.



Again, you always need to close the circuit. The electrons move between the atoms. No electrons are made or destroyed in that process.



But, and this is crucial, causes only are meaningful *within* the universe. They are an aspect of natural law. Even talking about causality outside of the universe (and time) is a mistake.

At least, that's how I see it.

Gravity comes forth from mass? So, it leaves. So it's lost energy.

You think I am expecting a mechanistic explanation? No. I was expecting you to say "We only know the force of gravity. That's about it." But you can't do that.

DC doesn't close the circuit. The electrons leave and go somewhere else. It would be nice if you just admit that you don't know, because I know you don't know.

No electons are made or lost during the process? Do you have any proof of that claim?

Causes are only crucial in the universe? That's because science has not accepted the idea of anything existing outside the material universe, well, except the idea of the 4th dimension of time.

Some of the scientists own rules don't make sense, and you know they don't make sense, but you're a follower just like most other scientists. You can't figure it out so you wait for the top 1% to figure it out for you but they can't because they haven't been given the answers yet AND some of the answers the scientists were given in the past they totally misunderstood, just like religion.