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Featured Theists: Atheism is a Religion?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JChnsc19, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    True, no theism; no atheism.

    Atheists owe it all to theists,
    aren't atheists the lucky ones.
     
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  2. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Blind faith is indeed out there; but I suspect the 'emotional blanket' response is rather more common ─ as long as it brings comfort, there can't be much motive to submit it to a skeptical critique.

    And some like the sense of community, cooperating and getting things done around the town. I've worked with church groups back in my school-parent and community project days, and I have good memories of those occasions.
     
  3. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    Big IF at the end there, and no. That is pretty silly, even for you.
    Enjoy your ride, out there where you are, beyond the orbit of Pluto.

    You are far beyond the reach of reason.

    Let us drop it now. I hope you will get
    better, the condition is chronic, but theoretically,
    not incurable. :D
     
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  4. We Never Know

    We Never Know Active Member

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    It exists
    Google. See my avatar. It's about people like you. Google it or not, it's your choice
     
  5. We Never Know

    We Never Know Active Member

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    I guess many are all lucky that they have adversaries. It's what gives many reason in their life.
     
  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I suspect the two are closely linked, essentially the same thing.

    There is however a considerable range between the bible literalist (and beyond) and the every day Christian. Same goes for other faiths.
     
  7. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Active Member

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    Faithlessness is relative to non-religion... and irrationality.
     
  8. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Theological belief, including the belief that gods do not exist. That, too, is a belief based on the proposition of the existence of gods.
    The ideology that humans possess the capacity to determine the existence of gods, if they were to exist, and that humans could prove that determination to others. Leading to the position that if the existence of gods has not been proven the the atheist, to the atheist's satisfaction, that the only reasonable assumption to adopt is that gods do not exist.

    This reasoning is very weak, of course, and most atheists know it, even though they continue to hold to it, which is why they are so reluctant to claim it, publicly, and instead try to deflect and subvert the conversation with statements about what they DON'T believe, and what they DON'T assert, rather than what they do believe.
    The ritual of coming to these kinds of websites to continually preach against the foolishness of all religions based on a belief in the existence of gods, all the while regurgitating the writings of their favorite atheist media mouthpieces. Not all atheists do this, of course. Because not all atheists are 'religious' about their atheism. But a few are, which is why, and how, atheism CAN be held and expressed 'religiously'. Which is the subject of this thread.
     
  9. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I should have been clearer ─ I was associating 'blind faith' with fervor, and comfort with a more easygoing outlook.

    And yes, the fervor of the literalists! Is it training? Is it insecurity? A recognized medical condition, PTSD or the like?
     
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  10. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    Why not just say that pure semantics and equivocation
    conquereth all, to your satisfaction?
     
    #170 Audie, Feb 24, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  11. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

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    It seems like a syndrome of some sort. Included in
    symptoms is a seemingly absolute inability to aceept
    that they are capable of any error.

    I thought I had a floodie- gotcha, one time, when
    he admitted thatpolar ice is older than the noahs
    ark story.

    First, he had it that sure, the ice floated, but
    circumpolar current kept it in place, and
    it sank back down.

    "Every mountain, valley etc, it fit just as it had been?"

    So he settled on that the ice was frozen down.
    Ice on the sidewalk does not just float away
    if you put water on it!

    We've a raft of biblical innereantarians here who
    will demonstrate this same profound disability,
    if you try to show them the obvious.
     
    #171 Audie, Feb 24, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Many Young Earth Creationists agree that the world is indeed spherical, but the weird part is that they then insist that the bible says so. Since it repeatedly and baldly treats the earth as flat, exactly as the cosmology of its day required, it must require extraordinary powers of doublethink to be a YEC.
     
  13. JChnsc19

    JChnsc19 Member

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    Like California is a state of mind?
     
  14. JChnsc19

    JChnsc19 Member

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    You mentioned evolution as atheist dogma and tenets. Are you saying these religious groups that also accept evolution are atheists as well?

    Acceptance of evolution by religious groups - Wikipedia
     
  15. JChnsc19

    JChnsc19 Member

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    Do you have as much “evidence” for the firmament? There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies. Your bible says god affixed the stars in the firmament. Were all the stars from the 100 billion galaxies affixed? Was it less? How do you know?
     
  16. JChnsc19

    JChnsc19 Member

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    MJFlores maybe you could be the one to answer my 1st ? when I originally started this thread. If you are saying you believe in 1 god, then you are an atheist towards the gods you don’t believe in, right? Where did you get your atheist creeds, doctrines, dogma etc towards those other religions?
     
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  17. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    worldreligions.jpg

    Not all religions are of God.
    Why?
    If all religions are of God then He would not have entered into a covenant with Israel and then He would not have sent His son, the Lord Jesus Christ who introduced the new covenant of God with the Jews, the Gentiles and the people in these last days.

    Hebrews 8:7-9 New International Version (NIV)
    For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said:

    “The days are coming, declares the Lord,
    when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel
    and with the people of Judah.
    It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their ancestors
    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
    and I turned away from them,
    declares the Lord.


    Not all Christian Churches are of Christ.
    Why?
    Because the Lord Jesus said so.
    Even if they preached about him, even if they drove out demons or even if they performed miracles!

    Matthew 7:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


    And if they are not of Christ, then they cannot be of God.
    If they are not of Christ, they are Antichrists.
    Why?
    Because they preach and believe that the Lord Jesus is also god in a Trinity of gods. There are others who preach and believe that the Lord Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There are others who preach and believe that the Lord Jesus is the lesser god as compared to his Father. According to the Bible they are Antichrists:

    2 John 7 The Message (MSG)
    There are a lot of smooth-talking charlatans loose in the world who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being. Give them their true title: Deceiver! Antichrist!

    Now going back to these religious groups who are accepting evolution like the atheist....
    They are entitled to their beliefs.

    Ecclesiastes 7:29 New International Version (NIV)
    This only have I found:
    God created mankind upright,
    but they have gone in search of many schemes.”

    These conclusions are not from me but from the Bible.:cool:
     
  18. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    There I cited a 2014 discovery that there exist a vast ocean under the earth's crust and an ocean above our heads and compared this with the verses of the Bible particularly the book of Genesis, which was scribe by Moses as God mentioned it to him. Before 2014, man was clueless [mind you, it also includes me] - we were clueless that such existed but it was long written in the Bible - and that is truly amazing!

    From the a vault between the waters to separate water from water [oceanography] now to space [astronomy]?

    The Bible is a book of faith, not a zoology book, physics, calculus etc - otherwise if it is then the book authors of these world would close shop. But what I know about the stars and the Bible are limited. I have read the word "firmament" in other translations of the Bible but that word just confuses things and I don't really like to compose sentences which are convoluted or confusing.

    Next, my own words means nothing so it would be better to read and understand the words of God written in the Bible:

    Psalm 147:4 New International Version (NIV)
    He determines the number of the stars
    and calls them each by name.

    Astronomy: UCSB Science Line
    There are about 10 billion galaxies in the observable universe! The number of stars in a galaxy varies, but assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy means that there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe!

    With regards to the number of stars and the names of these stars it is is really a "need to know thing"

    Job 38 New International Version (NIV)
    Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

    “Who is this that obscures my plans
    with words without knowledge?
    Brace yourself like a man;
    I will question you,
    and you shall answer me.

    “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
    Tell me, if you understand.
    Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
    Who stretched a measuring line across it?
    On what were its footings set,
    or who laid its cornerstone—
    while the morning stars sang together
    and all the angels shouted for joy?

    “Who shut up the sea behind doors
    when it burst forth from the womb,

    when I made the clouds its garment
    and wrapped it in thick darkness,
    when I fixed limits for it
    and set its doors and bars in place,
    when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
    here is where your proud waves halt’?



    “Have you ever given orders to the morning,
    or shown the dawn its place,
    that it might take the earth by the edges
    and shake the wicked out of it?
    The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
    its features stand out like those of a garment.
    The wicked are denied their light,
    and their upraised arm is broken.

    “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
    or walked in the recesses of the deep?
    Have the gates of death been shown to you?
    Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
    Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
    Tell me, if you know all this.

    “What is the way to the abode of light?
    And where does darkness reside?
    Can you take them to their places?
    Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

    Surely you know, for you were already born!
    You have lived so many years!



    “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
    or seen the storehouses of the hail,
    which I reserve for times of trouble,
    for days of war and battle?
    What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
    or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
    Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
    and a path for the thunderstorm,
    to water a land where no one lives,
    an uninhabited desert,
    to satisfy a desolate wasteland
    and make it sprout with grass?
    Does the rain have a father?
    Who fathers the drops of dew?
    From whose womb comes the ice?
    Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
    when the waters become hard as stone,
    when the surface of the deep is frozen?




    “Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades?
    Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
    Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons
    or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
    Do you know the laws of the heavens?
    Can you set up God’s dominion over the earth?



    “Can you raise your voice to the clouds
    and cover yourself with a flood of water?
    Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
    Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?
    Who gives the ibis wisdom
    or gives the rooster understanding?
    Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
    Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
    when the dust becomes hard
    and the clods of earth stick together?

    “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
    and satisfy the hunger of the lions
    when they crouch in their dens
    or lie in wait in a thicket?
    Who provides food for the raven
    when its young cry out to God
    and wander about for lack of food?
     
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  19. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists.

    Atheism - Wikipedia bow!

    Google religion:

    re·li·gion
    Dictionary result for religion
    /rəˈlijən/
    noun
    noun: religion
    1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
      "ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
      synonyms: faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More
      sect, cult, religious group, faith community, church, denomination, body, following, persuasion, affiliation
      "the right to freedom of religion"
      • a particular system of faith and worship.
        plural noun: religions
        "the world's great religions"
      • a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
        "consumerism is the new religion"
    Is atheism a pursuit? Yes or no?
    Is atheism an interest? Yes or no?
    Do you consider atheism the supreme importance? Yes or no?

    Well, according to Google dictionary - consumerism is the new religion [maybe metaphoric in expression]

    druids.jpg

    With regards to "theism" - it does not matter if these people worship the sun, the moon and the stars as gods. It does not matter if these people worship gods made of stone or gold or fine pieces of art. It doesn't really matter if they worship anybody - they are theists, that is for sure.

    hindu.jpg

    But the thing is - when the world is about to end or when life is snuffed out on these people, will they be saved on Judgement Day? What does the bible say?

    Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
    But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

    So what is the right worship? What does the Bible say about this?

    This is what the Lord Jesus Christ said:

    John 4:23-24 New International Version (NIV)
    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    If there are true worshipers, surely then there are fake ones and those who refuse to believe, well we know their ultimate story don't we but I rather hear the Lord Jesus strike the gavel on it:

    gavel.jpg

    John 3:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
    This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
     
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you say your source is Google. Google is the Atheist King, is it? I ask for sources, you give me vague non-answers. You don't even tell me what I need to Google.

    I googled Atheist King, and got a list of atheists in politics and law (not the King of atheism), a list of atheists sorted via surname (not the King of atheism), a question about whether there have ever been any kings who were atheists (not the King of atheism), a question about whether a hypothetical king who was an atheist back in the medieval period could have ended religious dominance (not the King of atheism), and a whole bunch of other results, none of which were about a king of atheism.

    I googled atheist church and got results more like what you were expecting, but they tend to emphasize that it is simply a way to get the social aspects of church WITHOUT the religion aspects. So that doesn't exactly support your position that atheism is a religion.

    "It's a nice excuse to get together and have a bit of a community spirit but without the religion aspect," says Jess Bonham, a photographer. "It's not a church, it's a congregation of unreligious people." Source

    Atheist churches aim to provide some features of a religious congregation - fellowship and collective enjoyment - while forgoing any belief in a deity or the supernatural. Source

    So, your claim that atheism is a religion is so far unsupported. While there are atheistic groups that may be organised in ways similar to some religious groups, that tends to come from the way groups are organised, with presidents and vice presidents and secretaries and treasurers and so on, not from any religious necessity. And there are plenty of non-religious groups that are similarly organised - cat groups and hobby groups and reading groups and plenty of others.

    And you have totally failed to show that there are any atheistic holy texts, atheistic religious leaders, atheistic rites or ceremonies.

    So how about you provide a bit more of an answer than, "Google"?
     
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