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Featured Theists: Atheism is a Religion?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JChnsc19, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    If a definition of god could reach consensus then i think pigs would fly.
     
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  2. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Isn’t that the truth.

    And even better, peace on earth.
     
  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Well... more peaceful than at the moment one would think, unfortunately, those deciding what god is are human
     
  4. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I have to completely agree again. This is getting scary.
     
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  5. We Never Know

    We Never Know Active Member

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    For some it isn't about believing a God doesn't exist. I'm not asserting a God doesn't exist, I'm not saying I believe a God's doesn't exist, I'm saying I accept there is no evidence showing a God does exist, so why should I think otherwise.
     
  6. We Never Know

    We Never Know Active Member

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    Unfortunatley who decides what a God is, or what anything is are humans. There is nothing else to make those decisions.
     
  7. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    I would say that you can only define atheism as a religious belief like that if you define religious belief as a belief that is sincerely and strongly held.

    Atheism is not a religion as there is no supernatural aspect, no codified system of beliefs (apart from the lack of belief in a deity), no structure of holy people, no holy texts, no rites, no ceremonies, no churches, no traditions...

    Can you provide a source that shows that defining atheism as a lack of belief is incorrect?

    There is a distinct difference between lacking a belief in something and actively believing the opposite of that thing.

    For example, I do not believe there is a cat in my kitchen, since I do not own a cat and my house is closed, doors closed and windows closed. I have seen no evidence of a cat in my house, and my house is entirely consistent with a house that has no cat - no meowing, now sounds of cat footsteps running up and down the hall, no tinkle of the bell on a collar, no signs of fur, etc. Yet I can't say that I am 100% certain that there is no cat - my girlfriend left not too long ago and it is possible that a cat snuck in the front door as she left. True, the chances are extremely small, but they are still non-zero. So I lack a belief that there is a cat in my house, but I do not have the belief that there can't possibly be a cat in my house. I must be open to the possibility that there could be a cat in my house, even though the chances of that are very small.

    Likewise, as an atheist, I lack a belief in God. However, I am open to the possibility that God could exist, and I do not believe that God could not possibly exist.
     
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  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Correct, quite a catch 22 situation really
     
  9. We Never Know

    We Never Know Active Member

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    There are atheist creeds, atheist churches, atheist scholarships, atheist conventions, atheist groups, etc.
    Atheist groups have pecking order structure as presidents, vice-presidents, directors, field organizers, program directors and assistance's, etc.

    That doesn't make them a religion but some see them as a religion based on those things as well as others.

    Edit.
    IMO, if the Bible that speaks/teaches of God didn't exist, there would be no atheist or christians. We would be just people.
     
    #129 We Never Know, Feb 22, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  10. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    Non-religion is also a religion, just so ya know.
     
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  11. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    You said:
    "At a guess, you probably think there
    really-really was a world wide flood, Noah
    and all the animals, and all that."

    noahflood.jpg

    Is that an impossible event?
    I have no doubt it happened.

    Genesis 1:6-8 New International Version (NIV)
    And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

    According to the scientists: "At any moment, the atmosphere contains an astounding 37.5 million billion gallons of water, in the invisible vapor phase. This is enough water to cover the entire surface of the Earth (land and ocean) with one inch of rain" How much water is in the atmosphere?

    a vault between the waters to separate water from water



    Come on, this is the first book of the Bible and science just discovered it last 2014.

    Proverbs 3:13 New International Version (NIV)
    Blessed are those who find wisdom,
    those who gain understanding
    ,

    Yep, knew my Lord God from the Books which we call the Bible.

    Romans 10:2 New International Version (NIV)
    For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.

    Other people find their gods by carving a tree or from a stone.

    Why the books? Because it contains knowledge, we learn from it. It is like going to school and learning something. Imagine studying accounting and you haven't read any accounting book - what kind of accountant would you be? Same is true with having the right knowledge of God - learn from the book. Oh by the way, self study won't lead you no where - find the approved people of God like finding a school approved by the Department of Education.

    1 Timothy 2:3-4 New International Version (NIV)
    This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

    Knowledge of the truth - yeah!;)
     
  12. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    I don't also believe in the Easter Bunny and similar things like that.
    Why?
    Because the term Easter isn't even in the Bible.



    Googled the word religion and this came up:

    /rəˈlijən/

    noun

    noun: religion

    the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

    "ideas about the relationship between science and religion"

    synonyms:

    faith, belief, divinity, worship, creed, teaching, doctrine, theology; More

    sect, cult, religious group, faith community, church, denomination, body, following, persuasion, affiliation

    "the right to freedom of religion"

    o a particular system of faith and worship.

    plural noun: religions

    "the world's great religions"

    o a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

    "consumerism is the new religion"


    If Atheism is a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance, well betcha my golly wow, it must be a religion.

    You know what they say...if it looks like a duck?:rolleyes:
     
  13. JChnsc19

    JChnsc19 Member

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    Like not being able to ice skate makes me an ice skater?
     
  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    That's because this is not the designated thread for doing so. And I feel quite certain you would not even try to understand my point if I bother to elaborate. "Scientism" is the foolish belief that science is the only possible pathway to truth, because the truth is being defined by physicality, alone (materialism). This is a position that a significant number of self-proclaimed atheists hold, and some express with 'religious' devotion and enthusiasm. It is foolish because as any scientist will tell us, science does not pursue "truth". It pursues only the mechanics of physical function. And as any philosophical debate will reveal, reality is not defined by the mechanisms of physical function, it is defined by our cognitive conceptual experience of those physical functions.
     
  15. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The answer to that question is that there is positive value to be gained from assuming the existence of "God", even though we lack proof for it's existence. And keep in mind that there IS EVIDENCE for of a divine existence, just not enough enough to convince you. And that is your choice. It is likely because you are demanding physical evidence for a non-physical proposition. Thus guaranteeing that you will never obtain it.
     
  16. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    Such as?

    Such as?
     
  17. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I don't think religion is based on the strength and sincerity of belief, but on a desire to live/act in accordance with whatever degree of belief one holds. Religions are about the process of expressing one's belief. Not necessarily the intensity of that belief.
    These can be developed and expressed individually, and for some atheists, they are. I have seen atheists run from website to website, and thread to thread, spreading their atheist ideology by any means possible, just like the most ardent "god-believer". They tout and express their dogma, ritual, sacred ideals and texts just as surely as any ardent follower of religion.
    Having common sense and an ability to reason, logically, I don't need any external sources to tell me that touting what one does NOT believe as an assertion that they are loudly and determinedly NOT making is disingenuous nonsense.
    It is twice irrelevant to assert what one does not believe and is not willing to assert publicly. I would expect one to be embarrassed to be making such statements. And yet there they are, atheist after atheist, proclaiming their irrelevance to all the world with religious abandon.
     
  18. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I've tried to understand your previous posts on the subject and responded to them.
    What else is there that isn't imaginary? As ever, I stand ready to be persuaded by evidence and reason.
    That depends on how you defined truth. I hold with the 'correspondence' definition ─ a statement is true to the extent that it conforms with / corresponds to / accurately describes objective reality. This has the great advantage of an objective test, and it allows you and me and science to make statements that are true. Of course, truth isn't absolute. It changes as we learn more. It was once true that the world is flat, and now it isn't. It was once true that the Higgs boson was hypothetical but now it's real.

    What definition of 'truth' do you use?
    It remains the case that you and I agree that a world exists external to the self and that our senses are capable of informing us of it. That's the realm of the physical sciences, that's nature, reality, the place where things with objective existence are found.

    And the alternative to real is 'imaginary'. The unicorn is imaginary because we have the concept of it but that concept has no objective counterpart. 'God', if not imaginary, nonetheless has no definition appropriate for an entity with objective existence, meaning that we find many concepts of an imaginary god, but none which has an objective counterpart. That seems very odd considering 'God' is regularly claimed to be real.

    So please explain it to me.
     
  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Hope, when it would otherwise be unavailable. A means of determining a personal ideal when that might otherwise be difficult or impossible to achieve. A 'model' for emulating those ideals in one's self and recognizing them in others. A way of connecting with our humanity that we would not otherwise have had. And so on.
    All of the above. That existence is complex and apparently intentional. That we are alive, and conscious of our being alive. That existence is aware of itself, through us, and possibly through a myriad of other forms of consciousness. That we perceive 'spirit' within physical reality. That existence clearly exhibits an ability to 'transcend' itself. And so on.
     
  20. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    But this would all fall under the heading of self-deception if the idea of god that you have does not correspond to a reality (even if there is a god it might not be what you think it is). You are also neglecting the negatives that theistic beliefs can cause: prejudice, conflict, and so on.

    How is intention in any way apparent?

    So, why is any of that evidence for any god(s)?

    What's 'spirit' and how is it evidence for any god(s)?

    What does this mean and how is it evidence for any god(s)?
     
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