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The Zero COVID Campaign

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I haven't heard of it. I'm against (currently) though could change my mind. Why am I against it? I'm against it, because we don't have accurate statistics about this low mortality disease. We don't know which deaths are actual Covid 19 deaths. We don't know how many patients have died from experimental Covid 19 drugs. We don't know how many were going to die, anyway of old age. We don't know.
Low mortality? By the end of this month covid will exceed the number of annual deaths attributed to tobacco.
No. We don't have an entirely clear picture. But clearly this is serious enough it must be taken seriously. We may not need total shut downs, and may not even worry about zero if everyone gets vaccinated, but this isn't low threat, low damage, or low mortality. It requires caution and careful planning, but it spreads like wildfire, it chokes our hospitals, and has effects that extend far beyond the treatment of this disease. At this point it is a moral imperative we all do our part, because our negligence does endanger others until we get through this. And that was before the more contagious and more deadly variants.
And crystal clear numbers or not, we see the same thing globally. This virus is designed to spread, it hates and detests the elderly, it really doesn't like people with various certain conditions, and plays Russian Roulette with the lives and health of everybody else. Funeral homes are overbooked, crematories can't keep up, and California had to ease pollution restrictions for crematories in response to this.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I recently became aware of an international movement called the Zero COVID Campaign. The movement aims not just to reduce the spread of COVID to lower levels, but to literally eliminate COVID entirely.

Home - Zero Covid

Inside the Zero Covid campaign - UnHerd

For the past year, I have been deeply disturbed by COVID denialists who have repeatedly, on RF and off, spread conspiracy theories and misinformation about COVID, ranging from denying that it exists, denying or minimizing its deadliness, claiming masks are ineffective at stopping its spread, claiming the virus was intentionally created and spread as a tool for social control, and so on. As a person who works on the "front lines" in a healthcare setting, I want society to take COVID precautions seriously, get as many people vaccinated as possible, and prohibit unnecessary social gatherings until the virus is brought down to safer levels.

But I must say, I'm also concerned about this movement on the opposite end of the spectrum, that seems to want an even stricter lockdown of society until there is literally ZERO COVID left - a goal that I don't even know is achievable, particularly given the mutated strains of the virus we're already seeing. It is further concerning that this seems to be the philosophy adopted by authoritarian regimes like China.

Am I overreacting? Have you already heard of COVID Zero? Are you in favor? Why or why not?
One of my tenants owes me 11,000... When I sent him the Unpaid Rent Repayment Plan Worksheet, which is required of landlords who have tenants who owe rent money because of Covid (we have to give them an opportunity to pay before we can evict them), he refused to acknowledge that I sent him the worksheet and he said there is no pandemic. If there is no pandemic he really has no excuse for not paying the rent and later I can use what he said in the e-mail if I have to go to court and evict him. Also if he does not pay as he promised to and if he is unwilling to offer me a payment plan I can evict him when the eviction moratorium is over.

Here is what he said. :rolleyes:

I still have the same 3 clients who say that they are going to hire me, they are just waiting for their unemployment checks and stimulus checks. They are going to finally come through as soon as they get their checks.

This Fake Corona Virus and Fake Covid 19 Plandemic is all bull****, there is NO disease pandemic.

What we really have is a Fake News Pandemic.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
One of my tenants owes me 11,000... When I sent him the Unpaid Rent Repayment Plan Worksheet, which is required of landlords who have tenants who owe rent money because of Covid (we have to give them an opportunity to pay before we can evict them), he refused to acknowledge that I sent him the worksheet and he said there is no pandemic. If there is no pandemic he really has no excuse for not paying the rent and later I can use what he said in the e-mail if I have to go to court and evict him. Also if he does not pay as he promised to and if he is unwilling to offer me a payment plan I can evict him when the eviction moratorium is over.

Here is what he said. :rolleyes:

I still have the same 3 clients who say that they are going to hire me, they are just waiting for their unemployment checks and stimulus checks. They are going to finally come through as soon as they get their checks.

This Fake Corona Virus and Fake Covid 19 Plandemic is all bull****, there is NO disease pandemic.

What we really have is a Fake News Pandemic.

OMG I'm so sorry. :facepalm:
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
One of my tenants owes me 11,000... When I sent him the Unpaid Rent Repayment Plan Worksheet, which is required of landlords who have tenants who owe rent money because of Covid (we have to give them an opportunity to pay before we can evict them), he refused to acknowledge that I sent him the worksheet and he said there is no pandemic. If there is no pandemic he really has no excuse for not paying the rent and later I can use what he said in the e-mail if I have to go to court and evict him. Also if he does not pay as he promised to and if he is unwilling to offer me a payment plan I can evict him when the eviction moratorium is over.

Here is what he said. :rolleyes:

I still have the same 3 clients who say that they are going to hire me, they are just waiting for their unemployment checks and stimulus checks. They are going to finally come through as soon as they get their checks.

This Fake Corona Virus and Fake Covid 19 Plandemic is all bull****, there is NO disease pandemic.

What we really have is a Fake News Pandemic.
We need a facepalm rating, because wow. I get we are stuck in a rock and a hard place for many renters and tenants, but is this guy's name Dick or Richard, by chance?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
We need a facepalm rating, because wow. I get we are stuck in a rock and a hard place for many renters and tenants, but is this guy's name Dick or Richard, by chance?
No, his name is Luis. :rolleyes:
And on top of that, the tenants at my other rental gave me notice a week ago so I just placed an ad to re-rent that house.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
This virus is designed to spread, it hates and detests the elderly, it really doesn't like people with various certain conditions, and plays Russian Roulette with the lives and health of everybody else.

History shows the Russian Roulette being played:

"Somewhere in Europe, a mutated strain of the Spanish flu virus had emerged that had the power to kill a perfectly healthy young man or woman within 24 hours of showing the first signs of infection".

Why the Second Wave of the 1918 Flu Pandemic Was So Deadly - HISTORY
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Many countries are fighting for elimination of Covid.
Their success relies on the will of the people.

“I think one of the reasons that Mongolia contained the virus so well is because Mongolians truly understood how dire the impact of it could be for them,”
How Mongolia has kept the coronavirus at bay | MIT Technology Review


I think it seems some countries are using what appears to be a yoyo strategy of lifting and lowering restrictions to help stop health services from collapsing while working on a vaccine strategy.

Perhaps because if their health system gets overloaded then both the covid and non-covid deaths will increase.

I'm sure the yoyo will be affecting the will of the people especially over an extended period.


Millions of people have already died and more people are dying everyday.

I think they might have preferred a few weeks of bubbles if given the chance.


I think the bubble strategy that some countries used is a better system for containment and elimination. No vaccines were needed. Covid was eliminated very quickly.
 

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
From the Zero Covid website:

"Whilst the UK suffers in a cycle of surge and lockdown other countries have applied Zero Covid policies – we can do the same".


The different strategies are compared in this video:

 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I recently became aware of an international movement called the Zero COVID Campaign. The movement aims not just to reduce the spread of COVID to lower levels, but to literally eliminate COVID entirely.

Home - Zero Covid

Inside the Zero Covid campaign - UnHerd

For the past year, I have been deeply disturbed by COVID denialists who have repeatedly, on RF and off, spread conspiracy theories and misinformation about COVID, ranging from denying that it exists, denying or minimizing its deadliness, claiming masks are ineffective at stopping its spread, claiming the virus was intentionally created and spread as a tool for social control, and so on. As a person who works on the "front lines" in a healthcare setting, I want society to take COVID precautions seriously, get as many people vaccinated as possible, and prohibit unnecessary social gatherings until the virus is brought down to safer levels.

But I must say, I'm also concerned about this movement on the opposite end of the spectrum, that seems to want an even stricter lockdown of society until there is literally ZERO COVID left - a goal that I don't even know is achievable, particularly given the mutated strains of the virus we're already seeing. It is further concerning that this seems to be the philosophy adopted by authoritarian regimes like China.

Am I overreacting? Have you already heard of COVID Zero? Are you in favor? Why or why not?

I think this is one of these rare times where our utopian ideas of democracy and freedom, work against us.

While I firmly believe that no government should have the kind of authoritarian powers like the Chinese (or worse), it shows to be quite helpful in times like these.

I can't help but wonder.......... how would Europe look right now if on February 1, 2020 the entire continent would have gone in full blown ultra-restrictive lock down for like a month or so. Like literally shut down. Nobody leaves the house. The army brings necessary food packages and meds and all real requirements to your home. Debt collecting is pauzed (during that month - nobody has to pay rent, morgage or what have you) and the government compensates wherever it is truly required.

What would have happened? The "first wave" would have never occurred. Would it have just delayed everything?

I look at china and eventhough the politics are debatable at best... I feel like they are making a mockery of us westerners. We struggle to properly test those who come home from holidays in foreign countries (which we still allowed for some strange reason)... yet in China, after just 4 cases they shut down an entire city with a population twice the size of Belgium the country and subject them ALL to a test in just 4 days and thereby nip it in the behind.

In Wuhan, life has pretty much returned to "normal" for months now.

It's a good question: do the means justify the end?

Well in this case... I loath myself for saying it but... well... maybe it does.

We are so obsessed with our "personal freedoms" that it borders pure selfishness. Why can't we "take one for the team" and have a "draconian" short(*) lock down to get it down to at least controllable levels - or indeed down to 0.

(*) "short" lockdown, as compared to the entire past year of restrictions and problems and multiple "soft lockdowns" and social isolation and .... still no end in sight.


Imo, we are being ridiculed by the likes of China. Meanwhile, their economy is getting back on track and getting stronger, while we are decapitating ours with a dull blade. Slowly and painfully.

China instead said "when your toe hurts, cut off your foot and move on " while we struggle and struggle and struggle to save the toe hoping we'll only lose a part of the nail.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I haven't heard of it. I'm against (currently) though could change my mind. Why am I against it? I'm against it, because we don't have accurate statistics about this low mortality disease. We don't know which deaths are actual Covid 19 deaths. We don't know how many patients have died from experimental Covid 19 drugs. We don't know how many were going to die, anyway of old age. We don't know.

We do know.

All it takes is compare statistics of past years with statistics of today. This gives you the excess mortality. That, in and of itself, is already a very good indicator.

You can then compare that number to a rigorous attempt at counting the covid related deaths. You'll see that they pretty much match (as in: they find themselves in the same range, with reasonable statistical error margins).


One should also consider the difference between a death caused by covid and a death related to covid.
In my understanding, MANY deaths are only related to covid.

Like my wife's step-uncle.
He ended up in the hospital with covid19. Soon after he ended up in the ICU and was put into a coma. It got pretty bad. Then he got a little better. Testing showed that his body had overcome the virus. He was healed from Covid but still had a long recovery awaiting him. Which wouldn't have been a problem, only... while in the hospital he got infected with "hospital bacteria" (not sure if that is the proper english term for it). It found its way into his lungs. Needless to say, Covid had wrecked serious havoc to his lungs. In any other circumstances, this infection with hospital bacteria wouldn't have been a problem...

Unfortunatly, his fight against covid weakened him so much and damaged his lungs so severely that this bacteria simply was too much... And he passed away as a result.


So was his death "caused" by covid? No. It was caused by that bacteria. But it most definatly is related to covid.

In Belgium, his death would be considered a Covid death. In many countries, it wouldn't.

So when people ask me "how come covid deaths are so excessive in belgium proportionally compared to other countries?". Well: that's my answer. We count them all, and thereby we actually account for ALL excessive death.

Look at the excessive death stats from a country that only counts deaths caused by covid. You'll notice that a very big portion of the excessive deaths in those countries are unaccounted for.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
What exactly did New Zealand do and is it even possible to get high population countries to follow what New Zealand did?

I think demographics do play a significant role.
Indeed. When you have 100 families (that's easily 500 people) living in a single building - good luck keeping covid out.

There was this one case study of an appartment building somewhere - forgot where it was.
1 person was an asymptotic carrier of covid. She lived on the top floor.. She had contact with nobody in the building.
The entire building ended up infected. The virus likely spread through the buttons in the elevator to open/close doors and to get to the ground floor.

Indeed, in highly populated area's, it's close to impossible to avoid it.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
We do know.

All it takes is compare statistics of past years with statistics of today. This gives you the excess mortality. That, in and of itself, is already a very good indicator.
I'm not a doctor, but I watched a presentation by a doctor who claimed otherwise....looking for it...Her name is Dr. Sam Bailey. The youtube code is bw5ldWr9QD0 (don't want to post it directly, but you can look at it). It's title is Excess Mortality -- What You Aren't Being Told. She posted this on December 22, 2020. Its not old and is not early in the pandemic. She says we don't know, and she explains her reasons why which I am not going to argue. I'm not a doctor, and I don't care to argue the positions of medical people. My position is that until I understand the details better I am convinced that we don't know.

One should also consider the difference between a death caused by covid and a death related to covid.
In my understanding, MANY deaths are only related to covid.
That is where it gets a little confusing, and all I'm saying is that Zero Covid is an admirable idea, but I don't know if we can afford to go for it, don't know what it will require or whether it will save more lives than it costs. I don't want to hear, either, from people who aren't doctors on this issue. I'm talking about my own small opinion about whether I would advise taking our country to extremes in order to get Zero covid transmission. I think its impossible without extreme, painful, possibly deadly measures....unless vaccines make it possible. If the vaccines are working, and etc. If we can extinguish it like rubella and measles then I'm in favor of doing so.
 
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