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Featured The Wrong One

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by mikkel_the_dane, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    I am a skeptic. In practice it means that I accept limits on what I know. So I believe instead. Now I will talk about The Way or any other version of Knowing The Right Way or whatever words you use.
    So here is goes with the standard non-religious approach to gods. Not all the versions of gods can be true, because they contradict each other.
    But that has nothing to do with gods as such. It happens every time we as 2 or more human debate the same. Be it metaphysics, ontology, logic, knowledge, ethics, politics or what not for the right and wrong answer for what we share as the same. The same can't be and not be in the same sense. That is not unique for gods.

    So here it is as a probability for all humans including me as for all the cases of the same. I hold with 99,9...8 % probability wrong beliefs, hence my religion is The Wrong One.
    So how do you deal with that in your world view?

    Do you have The Way how ever you phrase it or do you accept that you don't know that and accept that you have in the end faith and that is it.

    Regards and love
    Mikkel
     
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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I deal with it as follows: My spiritual beliefs are the right ones for me at my stage in the journey.

    I accept that I have faith (possibly due to my inbuilt genetic nature) and that is it.
     
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  3. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it matters if people do not share your love for limits. Sometimes speculation turns out to be just as true as anything you accept as being true within your perceived limits.

    Every belief system has issues with accuracy and completeness within some scope or context. There are limitations to human language. I don't think this is as big of a deal as you are making it.

    Take Santa Claus for example. Millions of people around the World pretend Santa Claus exists by pretending to do what he would do if he did exist. So in a way, Santa Claus exists in the spirit of people's behavior. The same can be said true with religion. People organize their behaviors around their belief system. In this way, the spirit of what they belief exists in reality.

    I don't understand why the philosophical materials like yourself make such a bid deal out of this. I have faith in God precisely because I do not have any evidence. I also have faith a particular type of God.

    Actually, I do have some evidence for the existence of some strangely spiritual aspect to reality. There is something really strange about the way the wave function collapses when something is observed in double-slit type of experiments. What is the IT that knows something is being observed and then issues the order for the collapse the wave function. It's really strange stuff!

    “Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it.” Niels Bohr

    Here's a thread I started conveying my views:

    religiousforums.com/threads/why-atheism-and-atheists-are-just-wrong.226337/

    "If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration." Nikola Tesla
     
  4. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    I am not a philosophical materialist and all I have, is faith.

    But I don't think that atheists are wrong. I don't have that belief system. So you believe in wrong in a way, I don't.

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
  5. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    As a natural human I know what my natural human self limits are.....all human based, as discussed as relative to natural living conditions.

    Then science, a choice undertaken by males claim I am the one concept of science for science as science and claim and science is energy.

    Yet science does not even exist.
     
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  6. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    Everyone has a belief system. It's how human language works. But you tell me. What is the "right" way? Give me a set of statements you believe are absolutely true without any need for proof.

    Do you think "time" is real, eternal, and simply exists without question?

    "There Is No Such Thing As Time"
     
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  7. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Everyone has to find their own truth...
     
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  8. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I accept that the search for knowledge is, ultimately, a search for better and better approximations. In going from one approximation to the next, I expect the new one to be 'better' in the sense of including more phenomena into an overarching system.

    Two mottos:

    1. Never take yourself too seriously. And, by the way, you are taking yourself too seriously.

    2. Think and Care.
     
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  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    There is no single right way because as far as I can tell because we are different as humans for in effect what is the right way. The right way is always the right way to somebody and I haven't been able to find the right way for us all.
    So let me answer with philosophy as for "everything, something, something else and/or nothing as same, similar and/or different". Take A is in the strongest logical sense the same as A. Well, it is not, because it is 3 different As yet also similar and same. So in other words absolutely true is relative to a POV it would seem.

    We are playing with words when we play with right and wrong or all these of versions of positives and negatives including truth and false.
    So how does it matter? Well, it matters to you as it matters to you and yet that might be different to me and matter differently or be the same or similar. :)

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
  10. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The term "tao" means "way". Or more specifically, the 'way existence, exists'. The 'flow of being'. Within philosophical Taoism (as there are other expressions of it) it is understood that the "way", this 'flow of being', is a mystery to us. We do not know from whence it originates, nor do we know to where it proceeds. And yet we each exist within it, as a part of it, to fulfill our role. But how do we fulfill our existential role when we can't know what it is? The solution, according to philosophical Taoism, is that we don't need to know our role, to fulfill it. We simply need to be humble, and honest, and self-aware. We need only recognize the flow of being as we are experiencing it within and around us, and respond to it with humility, honesty, and spontaneity.

    Taoism does not use the term "faith", because from the Taoist's perspective, there is no other human option. There is only flow, and choice. The choice to struggle endlessly with the flow of being in a doomed effort to control it for ourselves, or to embrace that flow and fulfill roles within it, wherever it takes us.
     
    #10 PureX, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  11. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    I think we might be saying the same thing. Do you think objective truth exists? Do you think it matters what people believe?
     
  12. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    26368693-D901-4B1B-B7C4-CB99D4D115EA.jpeg
     
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  13. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    The lady doth protest too much.

    You don't need to tell us every time you post how "skeptical" you are.

    So far so good.

    Wait, how did you do that math?

    And even if we accept that you likely hold some incorrect belief about some thing, how does it follow that you have the wrong religion?

    You seem to be trying to rationalize the idea that because we can't be absolutely certain or infallible, therefore we're rationally justified in believing things without good reason. Sorry, that doesn't follow.

    I don't have faith, unless you play word games about what faith is.
     
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  14. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    This is discussion, not debate. Now self-report yourself and give yourself a warning. :D

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    I don't know about objective truth.
    Yes, it matters to me what people believe but I haven't found any objective way to decide if we are right or wrong, so I have stopped doing that.

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
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  16. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yes, you are right.


    I didn't, it was for effect.


    Just ask some of the non-believers. They can explain it. I am also play with all the claims of being right.


    Justification is a belief system, since it is apparently not possible to rationally justify anything.
    1. Dissent – The uncertainty demonstrated by the differences of opinions among philosophers and people in general.
    2. Progress ad infinitum – All proof rests on matters themselves in need of proof, and so on to infinity, i.e, the regress argument.
    3. Relation – All things are changed as their relations become changed, or, as we look upon them from different points of view.
    4. Assumption – The truth asserted is based on an unsupported assumption.
    5. Circularity – The truth asserted involves a circularity of proofs.
    Better version here:
    Ancient Skepticism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


    Faith: Merriam-Webster - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Since there is apparently no rational justification possible, it would seem you have faith.

    BTW Since you are debating me, so am I. If you think you weren't debating, but I am and you don't like that, you can report me for debating in the discussion part. ;)

    But thank you for your answer.

    Regards
    Mikkel
     
  17. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    You can do that!
     
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  18. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    If you dont want to debate, that's fine. But just so I understand your position, do you not believe certain things are logically self-evident, like the principal of identity (a=a)?
     
  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, only in a limited sense. A=A is also 3 different As as different time and spaces. Logic if done over-reductively removes time and place and for 2 or more humans, there are always more than one case of something is at a given time in a given sense.
    Rationalism including logic has been tried and it only works in limited sense.

    Here it is in the technical sense for the LNC as ontology:
    It is impossible that the same thing can at the same time both belong and not belong to the same object and in the same respect, and all other specifications that might be made, let them be added to meet local objections.
    Contradiction (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

    Now those 2 As of A=A are not at the same time and place.
    We are doing in effect for "everything, something, something else and/or nothing" different aspects(respect) of same, similar and/or different.

    E.g. we are the same as members of Homo Sapiens Sapiens, similar as individuals, yet also some times different. I.e. logic has a limit.

    Regards
    Mikkel

    PS You can debate all you like. I don't mind as such. I like debating, but I started this in the discussion forum because I would like to hear other points of view without having to debate. But never mind, we are now debating. :D
     
  20. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    My thoughts is that thinking about religions in terms of being the 'right one' or 'wrong one' is not a good approach. The ultimate truth is beyond our thinking comprehension and we need to accept that. Essentially all religions that promote brotherly love, compassion and peace are at least on the right track (and that is essentially all of them).

    On the deeper subjects we have to use our minds to judge what makes the most sense. I have come to believe that the sages/mystics/gurus of the India (Hindu) wisdom tradition have delved deepest into the nature of reality hence my religion is 'Advaita Vedanta'.

    However, in the end it is the quality of our hearts and minds that really matter and not our positions on deeper theological subjects. Even an atheist can lead a great life.
     
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