The World's Fastest Growing Religion is No Religion

[David T]

I wrote "OF" Christianity. In context to Christianity why isn't the Phoenix the primary symbolic statement of Christianity today? There is a strong "Scientific" Empirical reason for this can you guess?

 

[LuisDantas]

One negative of this process that few people seem to mention:

In the West, churches and church halls play a valuable social role.

They are low cost community spaces that are used for many non-religious groups and societies from girl guides to yoga classes. They provide community for people who might otherwise be isolated, particularly the elderly.

Seeing them turn into offices and apartments is not a positive social development. They will not be replaced.

That is indeed worth pointing out.

While I am sure many will blame this trend on growing callousness, individualism, etc, and I agree that there is something to that, it should also be asked whether part of the cause could not be a failure to sufficiently stress the validity and need for that social role.

How is religion divided between social and supernatural roles, and why? And how should it be divided along those lines?

 

[Sakeenah]

Births in per woman:

• Norwegian birth rate: 1.25 births
• British birth rate: 1.9 births
• Icelandic birth rate: 2.04 births
• Dutch birth rate: 1.72 births
• Spanish birth rate: 1.32 , Danish birth rate: 1.73 , Slovenian birth rate: 1.53 , German birth rate: 1.38 , Belgian birth rate: 1.79, Swedish birth rate: 1.91 , French birth rate: 2.01
• American birth rate: 1.88
• Canadian birth rate: 1.61
• Australian birth rate: 1.93
• New Zealander birth rate: 2.05
• Japan birth rate: 1.41

Sub-replacement fertility is a total fertility rate (TFR) that (if sustained) leads to each new generation being less populous than the older, previous one in a given area. In developed countries sub-replacement fertility is any rate below approximately 2.1 children born per woman.
Sub-replacement fertility - Wikipedia

Pew found that Orthodox Jews averaged 4.1 children per adult
Read more: Orthodox Population Grows Faster Than First Figures in Pew #JewishAmerica Study

The average Israeli woman has three babies in her lifetime, nearly double the fertility rate for the rest of the industrialised countries in the OECD...
The birth rate is even higher among Israel's Arab community and more than double among its ultra-Orthodox Jews
Israel has the highest birth rate in the developed world, and that's becoming a problem

Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman
Muslim population growth - Wikipedia


So I guess another way to look at it, is that Orthodox Judaism and Islam are the fastest growing religions.

You forgot to drop the mic..

 

[Rival]

You forgot to drop the mic..

View attachment 16429

@Tumah needs no mic. When he speaks people shut up and listen. Even people who aren't speaking or making any noise go even quieter.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Religion appears to be going bust in a real hurry, and I'm not speaking just about Christianity.

"An ongoing spate of recent studies - looking at various countries around the world - all show the same thing: religion is in decline. From Scandinavia to South America, and from Vancouver to Seoul, the world is experiencing an unprecedented wave of secularization. Indeed, as a recent National Geographic report confirms, the world’s newest religion is: No Religion.

Consider the latest facts:

* For the first time in Norwegian history, there are more atheists and agnostics than believers in God.

* For the first time in British history, there are now more atheists and agnostics than believers in God. And church attendance rates in the UK are at an all-time low, with less than 2% of British men and women attending church on any given Sunday.

* A recent survey found that 0% of Icelanders believe that God created the Earth. That’s correct: 0%. And whereas 20 years ago, 90% of Icelanders claimed to be religious, today less than 50% claim to be.

* Nearly 70% of the Dutch are not affiliated with any religion, and approximately 700 Protestant churches and over 1,000 Catholic churches are expected to close within the next few years throughout the Netherlands, due to low attendance.

* According to a recent Eurobarometer Poll, 19% of Spaniards, 24% of Danes, 26% of Slovenians, 27% of Germans and Belgians, 34% of Swedes, and 40% of the French, claim to not believe in “any sort of spirit, God, or life-force.”

* In the United States, somewhere between 23% and 28% of American adults have no religious affiliation, and these so-called “nones” are not only growing in number, but they are becoming increasingly secular in their behaviors and beliefs.

* Among Millennials - Americans in their 20s - over 35% are non-religious, constituting the largest cohort of secular men and women in the nation’s history.

* In Canada, back in 1991, 12% of adults stated “none,” when asked their religion - today that is up to 24%.

* In Australia, 15% of the population said they had no religion in 2001, and it is up to at least 22% today.

* In New Zealand, 30% of the population claimed no religion in 2001, but it had risen to 42% in 2013.

* In South America, 7% of men and women in Mexico, 8% in Brazil, 11% in Argentina, 12% in El Salvador, 16% in Chile, 18% in the Dominican Republic, and 37% in Uruguay are non-religious — the highest such rates of Latin American secularity ever recorded.

* In Japan, about 70% of adults claimed to hold personal religious beliefs sixty years ago, but today, that figure is down to only about 20%; In 1970 there were 96,000 Buddhist temples throughout Japan, but in 2007, there were 75,866 - and around 20,000 of those were un-staffed, with no resident priest. In the 1950s, over 75% of Japanese households had a kamidana (Shinto altar), but by 2006 this was down to 44% nationwide, and only 26% in major cities.
source
​

So where did religion drop the ball?

.

Why are you spreading a free fear that doesn't mean that someone doesn't believe. At least its free fear and not forced fear. Evolution was only a proposition to break down people so that they crave "religion" but that is only for some. How they got there has caused extreme false unity. Which you shouldnt crave at all. America is awesome we've been through **** times than you can count. Theres only a few things that throw people off. The brainwash pyramid schemes and ideas that nazisim fixes it or bol****esim fixes it which in most causes are the lies of remaking the "garden of eden" scenerio but not without brainwashing so how much love is it? Well... . Hey if I do something like that and got ritualistic would you then be able to say you can SEE religion in me? Would it fit for you? Would i fit into unity? I understand that some have worshipped things they need religion to cover up but that in itself always come back up.

 

[Revoltingest]

Births in per woman:

• Norwegian birth rate: 1.25 births
• British birth rate: 1.9 births
• Icelandic birth rate: 2.04 births
• Dutch birth rate: 1.72 births
• Spanish birth rate: 1.32 , Danish birth rate: 1.73 , Slovenian birth rate: 1.53 , German birth rate: 1.38 , Belgian birth rate: 1.79, Swedish birth rate: 1.91 , French birth rate: 2.01
• American birth rate: 1.88
• Canadian birth rate: 1.61
• Australian birth rate: 1.93
• New Zealander birth rate: 2.05
• Japan birth rate: 1.41

Sub-replacement fertility is a total fertility rate (TFR) that (if sustained) leads to each new generation being less populous than the older, previous one in a given area. In developed countries sub-replacement fertility is any rate below approximately 2.1 children born per woman.
Sub-replacement fertility - Wikipedia

Pew found that Orthodox Jews averaged 4.1 children per adult
Read more: Orthodox Population Grows Faster Than First Figures in Pew #JewishAmerica Study

The average Israeli woman has three babies in her lifetime, nearly double the fertility rate for the rest of the industrialised countries in the OECD...
The birth rate is even higher among Israel's Arab community and more than double among its ultra-Orthodox Jews
Israel has the highest birth rate in the developed world, and that's becoming a problem

Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman
Muslim population growth - Wikipedia


So I guess another way to look at it, is that Orthodox Judaism and Islam are the fastest growing religions.

We must step up efforts to convert them....tempting them with bacon.
Resistance is futile!

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I bet religion is going
gangbusters there.

Well, the governments will assure themselves of it, anyway, like how Ahmedinejad (?) said no gay people existed in Iran.

That's probably part of it. We're also overworked, overschooled and exhausted. Keep chasing the carrot, slaves.

It'd be nice if we lived in the Federation and didn't need the carrot to survive, but ....

Consumerism, sexual liberty, hyper individualism and so on are not the products of the churches

Come to Random Church, Europe! See the remarkable hangnail of some apostle! Come pet the maimed skeleton of some other random biblical person! Pay the low, low entry fee of 9,000 whatever your currency is! Pay us money so you will go to heaven! Pay us money so your enemies will go to hell! Pay us money because ... reasons!

You, there, on the American TV! Put your hand up to the TV screen and know that Jesus will heal you if you give us a thousand dollars! He will board your pets! He will brush your hair! He will stop whatever He's doing, because nothing in the entire universe is more important than YOUR problems!

Hear ye! Hear ye! Dost thou not knowest that sex is bad, m'kay? We must'eth stop'eth it wherever it is mentioned-eth! Prohibition ALWAYS works-eth! Dost thou not concerneth yourself with Adam and Eve, the first example in our Holy Scriptures of prohibitions clearly having the wrong effect!

LOL, yeah, the churches had nothing to do with it whatsoever ...

there is not enough time to go to church

Why should I when I can hear a broader range of issues and opinions and facts on the internet? Can't we feel the entire globe (or its cyber equivalent) is a church?

The Secular Age is snowballing. The Internet exposes young people to a wide array of ideas and practices that undercut old time beliefs. That family breakdown severs traditional participation in congregations.

The internet actually named me. I'm from the Bible Belt and "progressive Christianity" wasn't a label until I joined a religious forum in my 20s.

And yet, I'm noticing more and more Pagans in America and Europe...

Can't go wrong with the OG, right?

When it failed to properly care for its own goals and motivations, I would think. Most likely because it fell prey to the temptation of fast immediate growth.

For me, it became apparent that churches (and other equivalent places) have the doctrines they do because their leaders get their paychecks from the people who show up. Evangelism doesn't scream "Jesus loves you" to me, but "my pastor can't afford the jet yet".

The most constructive course of action would have been to open itself to learning from science, particularly the social sciences, and to understand and accept how feeble, archaic and unnecessary any claims of connection to a conscious divinity are. But the lure of radicalization and pride was all too often too strong for religious authorities and even common adherents to resist.

Yes, if Christianity were humble, "judging a tree by its fruit" would result in "crooked branches getting chopped down". However, they are profiting off the status quo, so ...

Long story short, I take with a grain of salt any person, either in the bible or outside of it, who claims to work for God but somehow ends up with the money.

There was always something weird with the very idea that parents and family could somehow choose the metaphysical beliefs of their little children.

Or you have morality pounded into you, sometimes literally, and you start to ask yourself if your parents know about God, how can they act that way?

You seemed to be implying that family and community breakdowns and the replacement of them by the Internet are good things.

I come from a broken home. You know where I finally found my ideological "home"? You want to know how I socialize since I'm largely introverted to almost an autistic extent? The internet.

I mean, I am only extroverted at work because I'm being paid to be good at customer service. At home, I don't leave the house unless necessary.

I mean, I agree with you that families breaking down is bad, but don't knock the 21st century's lifeline for people who had to suffer it. <3

So I guess another way to look at it, is that Orthodox Judaism and Islam are the fastest growing religions.

I would say they are having the most babies. I'll believe in the religions when they come of age and still choose to remain in those religions.

Develope a penchant for ego and condescension, apparently. Irreligious don't have the market cornered on thinking. And I say that as an irreligious person getting tired of the mirrored 'holier than thou,' except 'smarter than thou.'

Hey, it bugs me too, but then studies keep showing that the more religious you are, the dumber and more cruel you likely are...

They are low cost community spaces

Indeed. The church my maternal grandparents used to go to was so low cost they charged my aunt thousands of dollars for my grandfather's PRE-PAID grave, on land that we found out was donated and should've been FREE.

The new religions called Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. have taken the place of the old religions that all come from the worshiping of the beast.

Religions started it. The internet didn't come up with a beast, but religion did.

I don't think so because we are only 8 million in a world full of irreligious millions. It is mainstream churches that are dying. Besides, we don't teach that science is wrong for the simple reason that only evolutionary science is guilty of stretching the truth. We have little problem with the many other branches of science that stick to facts instead of promoting speculation that masquerades as fact.

I've recalled plenty of attempts by myself and others to post links to scientific journals (not blogs or youtubes), only for certain posters to deny them outright.

Since you say people who are irreligious are increasing the potential for irreligious people to effectively launch charitable work increases.

You know, I live in Pennsylvania. I think it was here that had quite a few Jewish cemeteries destroyed thanks to KKK silliness from Cheeto-head (I like Cheetos and find this metaphor offensive, LOL). You know who ponied up the cash to fix them? Muslims. You know who are in charge (here) of the ideas of threatening nonwhites and women? Christians. Do other religions have "prosperity gospel" equivalents? Christianity bathes in it.

Demise of Christianity: 1,000 churches could shut across Britain as congregations shrink

Funny, I thought churches were supposed to be the group itself, not the building.

We are buying chapels
While they are closing theirs

Make more homes for the homeless with all that cash, and THEN I'll be impressed with your church's morals. I dislike self-serving theologies. Gives me heartburn.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I would have to go with what some others have alluded to or mentioned outright - the amount and diversity of information that is now always "at hand" for nearly everyone.

People can no longer be sheltered from the knowledge that there are thousands of systems of belief out there, and to "CHOOSE ONE?" What justice is that even doing to "truth?" Unless your personal investigation and experience dictates to you otherwise, you can't make that choice in good conscience. And those types of experiences are few and far between - much as a lot of believers would not like to have to admit.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Hey, it bugs me too, but then studies keep showing that the more religious you are, the dumber and more cruel you likely are...

I bet the studies you got that from were only talking about Abrahamic religions, considering a Hindu is more likely to be higher educated than an atheist, and a Jain more likely to be peaceful. Not to mention the myriad of non-denominational beliefs and plenty of pagan beliefs which have little to say on social issues and social decorum.

In any case, I take those studies with a large grain of salt. Studies also say that the more religious are also more likely to be happy and more charitable too. You can look those up and compare and contrast their methodology. I'm willing to bet the conclusions are about as merited as calling highly religious dumb and cruel.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Where could I find offices of irreligious and atheist?
I have a proposal for charitable movement to feed Africa.
Since you say people who are irreligious are increasing the potential for irreligious people to effectively launch charitable work increases.

Specially during natural calamities - we need irreligious people to help out.

American Red Cross | Help Those Affected by Disasters

http://www.feedthechildren.org/

I mean just do a Google search, this is not hard. You don't need religion for charity.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Stop promoting your sect on here. It's annoying and probably breaking the rules.

There is a rule against it:

Updates to the RF Rules

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.

 

[idea]

I would have to go with what some others have alluded to or mentioned outright - the amount and diversity of information that is now always "at hand" for nearly everyone.

People can no longer be sheltered from the knowledge that there are thousands of systems of belief out there, and to "CHOOSE ONE?" What justice is that even doing to "truth?" Unless your personal investigation and experience dictates to you otherwise, you can't make that choice in good conscience. And those types of experiences are few and far between - much as a lot of believers would not like to have to admit.

There are thousands of different types of food - because of the large variety, does it make it impossible to choose what your favorite is? There are billions of people - does that make it impossible to choose someone to marry, or choose someone to be friends with? There are thousands of books - do you give up reading anything because there are too many choices?

It does not matter how many choices there are, it does not matter what everyone else is doing... all that matters is your own personal character, who you are, how you decide to follow your own conscience... if you enjoy being an isolationist? a hermit? then don't participate in any community groups... if you enjoy company / friendship / religious conversations - then find a group close to your home that uplifts. You don't have to 100% agree with them - should not 100% agree with anyone. There is no borrowed light, everyone needs to think for themselves, but there is nothing wrong with a community either.

Religious experiences of finding a group of people that feels like home are as common as finding a friend or finding a new food you like. They happen all the time. We are social creatures, we enjoy being part of a group, we enjoy the feeling of "belonging" somewhere. There is nothing wrong with joining a good supportive group of people if you find one that feels like it fits you.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Births in per woman:

• Norwegian birth rate: 1.25 births
• British birth rate: 1.9 births
• Icelandic birth rate: 2.04 births
• Dutch birth rate: 1.72 births
• Spanish birth rate: 1.32 , Danish birth rate: 1.73 , Slovenian birth rate: 1.53 , German birth rate: 1.38 , Belgian birth rate: 1.79, Swedish birth rate: 1.91 , French birth rate: 2.01
• American birth rate: 1.88
• Canadian birth rate: 1.61
• Australian birth rate: 1.93
• New Zealander birth rate: 2.05
• Japan birth rate: 1.41

Sub-replacement fertility is a total fertility rate (TFR) that (if sustained) leads to each new generation being less populous than the older, previous one in a given area. In developed countries sub-replacement fertility is any rate below approximately 2.1 children born per woman.
Sub-replacement fertility - Wikipedia

Pew found that Orthodox Jews averaged 4.1 children per adult
Read more: Orthodox Population Grows Faster Than First Figures in Pew #JewishAmerica Study

The average Israeli woman has three babies in her lifetime, nearly double the fertility rate for the rest of the industrialised countries in the OECD...
The birth rate is even higher among Israel's Arab community and more than double among its ultra-Orthodox Jews
Israel has the highest birth rate in the developed world, and that's becoming a problem

Globally, Muslims have the highest fertility rate, an average of 3.1 children per woman
Muslim population growth - Wikipedia


So I guess another way to look at it, is that Orthodox Judaism and Islam are the fastest growing religions.

I am sorry, but are you suggesting just birth rate alone is the best estimator for the growth a religion?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I don't think so because we are only 8 million in a world full of irreligious millions. It is mainstream churches that are dying. Besides, we don't teach that science is wrong for the simple reason that only evolutionary science is guilty of stretching the truth. We have little problem with the many other branches of science that stick to facts instead of promoting speculation that masquerades as fact.

And college is not "bad" as in most of the educational subjects that are available there.....more that it is a very unhealthy moral environment for Christians. Can anyone deny this? Online courses are now making those choices a little easier. We do not believe that education is bad, as we are educators ourselves. Education does not guarantee a job....and we have no interest in material riches.

"more that it is a very unhealthy moral environment for Christians"

Yes, well you won't want them being exposed to a gay, better to keep your children within brain washing reach instead of sending them someplace where they can learn to think for themselves.

 

[Tumah]

I am sorry, but are you suggesting just birth rate alone is the best estimator for the growth a religion?

For the population growth of a religion, I think its important to take into consideration. And that's not something that I think was done in the OP. More people may be becoming atheist, but at the same time more people are becoming less people. Its true that you'd also need to account for assimilation, but in some countries (and some groups) that's easily over compensated by the birth rate.

According to one of my links, the birth rate in Israel for ultra-Orthodox Jewry is 6 births. I don't have any stats, but living in a fairly large ultra-Orthodox community, I'm confident that the drop out rate is much less than 50%. I don't have stats for the US either, but I know that the ultra-Orthodox community there has approximately the same number of children. The average is brought down by Modern Orthodox families who tend to have less children.

Similarly, I recall Debate Slayer linking an article estimating atheist Muslims at about 15% in countries where its illegal to do so. Even including that in the 3 births per woman, we're still over the replacement rate. And that's probably without looking at countries in the ME where I'd suspect the birth rate is much higher.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

If children are to be included in religious censuses, then it needs to be them giving testimony. Actually saying "I believe in this religion/this god(s)". Not their parents speaking for them, or them being claimed as a religion because of birth alone.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

For the population growth of a religion, I think its important to take into consideration. And that's not something that I think was done in the OP. More people may be becoming atheist, but at the same time more people are becoming less people. Its true that you'd also need to account for assimilation, but in some countries (and some groups) that's easily over compensated by the birth rate.

According to one of my links, the birth rate in Israel for ultra-Orthodox Jewry is 6 births. I don't have any stats, but living in a fairly large ultra-Orthodox community, I'm confident that the drop out rate is much less than 50%. I don't have stats for the US either, but I know that the ultra-Orthodox community there has approximately the same number of children. The average is brought down by Modern Orthodox families who tend to have less children.

Similarly, I recall Debate Slayer linking an article estimating atheist Muslims at about 15% in countries where its illegal to do so. Even including that in the 3 births per woman, we're still over the replacement rate. And that's probably without looking at countries in the ME where I'd suspect the birth rate is much higher.

I'll agree the OP has some questionable "statistics"; however, the study used in the National Geographic link appears to be legitimate. The study being referred in that article is an observational study. In the actual study itself, they are not trying to determine what causes the growth or decline of religion. They are comparing two populations and looking at the differences. I mean you can argue confounding variables until you are blue in the face, but nothing you said explains the difference between the two populations. Since it is an observational study they don't actually have to identify each confounding variables to note that there is a differences.

The evidence supports the claim that there is a differences. Unless you can show their sampling process was flawed, they were data snooping, or made some other statistical error you really don't have anything at all. Arguing birth rates is not going to make that difference disappear.

 

[Tumah]

I'll agree the OP has some questionable "statistics"; however, the study used in the National Geographic link appears to be legitimate. The study being referred in that article is an observational study. In the actual study itself, they are not trying to determine what causes the growth or decline of religion. They are comparing two populations and looking at the differences. I mean you can argue confounding variables until you are blue in the face, but nothing you said explains the difference between the two populations. Since it is an observational study they don't actually have to identify each confounding variables to note that there is a differences.

The evidence supports the claim that there is a differences. Unless you can show their sampling process was flawed, they were data snooping, or made some other statistical error you really don't have anything at all. Arguing birth rates is not going to make that difference disappear.

Of course its flawed. It assumes that all religious sects are failing at a similar rate because its only giving a national average. You may have one group that's experiencing startling growth but the average is tempered by another two or three groups that are dropping like stones. That's what seems to be happening here. Orthodox Judaism is experiencing unprecedented growth. Our birthrate surpasses the numbers that are leaving by far, with the American population quintupling in the past three generations. We're bucking the trend, but because we're such a minuscule sample size, we don't affect the national averages yet.

From there I am saying, that with the non-religious population literally dying out and Orthodox Judaism's population explosion, I don't think no-religion should rightly be called the fastest growing religion. More people may be becoming atheist, but there will always be less atheists thanks to lower birth rates in the non-religious population.

American Jewish population rapidly becoming more Orthodox

 

[Ekleipsis]

Yet even so, it appears more people than ever are wrestling with the idea of God, due to the inter-connectedness of the modern world ( Could just be myopia on my part due to the small number of websites I visit )

I think it's interesting that the Bible states that there will be a " great falling away " ( apostasy ) and at the same time it states that God would pour out his spirit on all mankind ( Regardless of race, religion, creed, location )

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Of course its flawed. It assumes that all religious sects are failing at a similar rate because its only giving a national average. You may have one group that's experiencing startling growth but the average is tempered by another two or three groups that are dropping like stones. That's what seems to be happening here. Orthodox Judaism is experiencing unprecedented growth. Our birthrate surpasses the numbers that are leaving by far, with the American population quintupling in the past three generations. We're bucking the trend, but because we're such a minuscule sample size, we don't affect the national averages yet.

From there I am saying, that with the non-religious population literally dying out and Orthodox Judaism's population explosion, I don't think no-religion should rightly be called the fastest growing religion. More people may be becoming atheist, but there will always be less atheists thanks to lower birth rates in the non-religious population.

American Jewish population rapidly becoming more Orthodox

"It assumes that all religious sects are failing at a similar rate because its only giving a national average."

It is not assuming any such thing; that is not how a statistical study works. It assumes there is a difference between the populations and the evidence supports that assumption. That is all it assumes. Now the journal article may make different assumptions based off that study, just like you are doing now, but the study itself only assumes the differences and as said, that assumption is backed by evidence.

"I don't think no-religion should rightly be called the fastest growing religion."

Unfortunately this is a different study; you'd need a separate study to compare the growth changes of no religion and Orthodox Judaism. But that is not a hypothesis you can scientifically test with a news link.

To be honest, I don't really care which is the fastest growing; I just care that people learn how to read statistical studies correctly.