The world is perfect just the way it is

[Koldo]

I am amazed that people misread your OP so much. To me it was very clear. The world is perfect, that is more than obvious to me. Needs no explanation whatsoever. Of course there is a big mess, especially that part where humans are involved, but still the world is perfect.

I clearly see perfection in imperfection. Especially when imperfection slowly changes into perfection. Evolution is quite a good example of this. I thought that people here on RF people agree on evolution (the once not seeing your point). I think if you contemplate on evolution a little bit your OP is very obvious. Have we not evolved in all these centuries? Many humans have been messy all these times, still evolution does not look too bad (ca. 100 years ago people lived under the ground in huts where I live now; imagine just 100 years ago). Of course evolution can spiral down also tomorrow. But then after another millenium it might go up. It's like the wave in the ocean, going up and down.

Before people also call me confused, they better think twice. My Master also said "The world is perfect". Other Masters have said the same. So saying otherwise is interesting of course, but might not be smart without giving it a second thought. It all has to do with the point of view.

Humans make a big mess, but still the world is perfect. Especially those natural Laws, especially the Law of Karma. This one makes the world perfect. Humans can mess up big time, but karma will always put them back in place. Maybe not today, but definitely tomorrow (don't take it too literal; tomorrow is always tomorrow).

In what sense is the world perfect ?

 

[Koldo]

I don't think so. Stating the World is perfect just the way it is is not the same thing has condoning immoral behavior. There are trade-offs in having a world full of imperfections. Some good some bad. But when I say the World is perfect just the way it is it is more an affirmation of appreciating all the good that comes out of having imperfections. If everyone in the World had one single opinion, one way of being, or one way of viewing other people and reality the World would be a very boring place.

Ok. So you are conflating perfection with not being boring. I get it. But that says more about you than it does about the world.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's nothing wrong with the world. The world is perfect just the way it is. Whatever it is you do not like about the world, you do not like it because you only criticize and hate in others what you do not like about your own character. Love is the answer to all the world's problems. But first you have to start by looking in the mirror. Only after you can appreciate and love yourself will you have the capacity to appreciate and love others. Once you get past yourself you will be able to see brilliance in other people. And then you experience the world as the greatest possible place to be in. Treating other people as sacred in the eyes of God means you are sacred in the eyes of God. To get what you want you have to want what you have.

Dr Pangloss, is that you?

 

[sayak83]

I am not saying those things do not exist. But regardless, the important problems get addressed eventually.

The way the World is that led to all these problems I'm not going to judge. Although there are many things I do not like, and I would definitely change if I had the capacity to do so, all in all, the World is pretty darn good just the way it is. I don't have to see all the child rapist in jail or somehow invent a way to prevent all child rape in order to appreciate beauty in the World.

Fair enough. But I do have the capability and the knowledge to make some positive changes to the world. Thus recognizing the problems, finding ways to cure them and implementing such solutions is something that I consider very important. And problems do not get addressed automatically, they have needed quite a lot of struggle and striving....and the ones that exist now will be no different.

 

[ChristineM]

I never said childhood leukemia was good as you are assuming. I'm saying even with all the sicknesses, the world is perfect because it gives opportunities for people to be heroes by curing sickness. Or by bringing rapists and murderers to justice. Or help people who are suffering from natural disasters.

You would not want to live in a world without imperfections. It would be way too boring. So yes, the World is perfect just the way it is because without imperfections the world would be too predictable and boring. People's imperfections are what make culture interesting and creative. People see the world in different ways because of their imperfections. And people express what they think about he World not perfectly which is more interesting because to really understand someone you have to appreciate where other the other person is coming from.

I suppose it must depend on one's interpretation of perfect

My interpretation is, If the world has imperfections (your wording) it is not perfect.

If it were perfect rape and murder would not happen, people would not be starving, we would not be killing our planet with our own waste.

I would say that the closest humanity can to perfect is - acceptable to some.

 

[stvdv]

In what sense is the world perfect ?

I thought my post was clear enough and I explained "in what sense is the world perfect" quite well, but not well enough it seems.

Maybe some computer analogy makes it more clear to you. And if not then I can't make it any clearer. For me it's very clear this concept, but I stayed in an ashram in India with a Master for 10 years and studied spirituality in Holland another 20 years. It was also not all clear to me in the first few years I remember now; so probably this is one of these concepts that take time to sink in.

I am a computer programmer. When I create a software game it's very important to make it "idiot proof". This means that millions of "idiots" can use and play with it, but it won't crash. My algoritme is strong enough to handle all the "idiots" doing all kind of foolish things. My program is perfect, because my algoritme rocks. In this analogy "world" is "software program", "algoritme" is "Divine Laws like Karma etc" and "Software programmer" is "The Creator". (In the early years of computers there was a computer game called "life", this was quite enlightening to me; gave me quite a good "feeling" how this creation works).

 

[Koldo]

I thought my post was clear enough and I explained "in what sense is the world perfect" quite well, but not well enough it seems.

Maybe some computer analogy makes it more clear to you. And if not then I can't make it any clearer. For me it's very clear this concept, but I stayed in an ashram in India with a Master for 10 years and studied spirituality in Holland another 20 years. It was also not all clear to me in the first few years I remember now; so probably this is one of these concepts that take time to sink in.

I am a computer programmer. When I create a software game it's very important to make it "idiot proof". This means that millions of "idiots" can use and play with it, but it won't crash. My algoritme is strong enough to handle all the "idiots" doing all kind of foolish things. My program is perfect, because my algoritme rocks. In this analogy "world" is "software program", "algoritme" is "Divine Laws like Karma etc" and "Software programmer" is "The Creator". (In the early years of computers there was a computer game called "life", this was quite enlightening to me; gave me quite a good "feeling" how this creation works).

Why do you consider divine laws like karma as your standard for perfection?

 

[stvdv]

Why do you consider divine laws like karma as your standard for perfection?

For me the world is perfect as it is. I never said "divine laws like karma are my standard for perfection". I thought you were just asking a question, so I gave my answer. For me it's clear; I have no issues on this, so I feel no need to debate on this. And I am fine if you think different about this. I only debate if things are not clear for me and I feel the need to know more about it. These things I have been contemplating on enough in my life.

My way of learning is not through debating. My way is through sharing experiences and then contemplating and meditating on what the other shared.

 

[Koldo]

For me the world is perfect as it is. I never said "divine laws like karma are my standard for perfection". I thought you were just asking a question, so I gave my answer. For me it's clear; I have no issues on this, so I feel no need to debate on this. And I am fine if you think different about this. I only debate if things are not clear for me and I feel the need to know more about it. These things I have been contemplating on enough in my life.

My way of learning is not through debating. My way is through sharing experiences and then contemplating and meditating on what the other shared.

You have said and I quote: "My program is perfect, because my algoritme rocks.". And then "algoritme" is "Divine Laws like Karma etc". Therefore the world is perfect because divine laws like karma rocks.

Why are divine laws like karma relevant to determine whether something is perfect ?

 

[stvdv]

You have said and I quote: "My program is perfect, because my algoritme rocks.". And then "algoritme" is "Divine Laws like Karma etc". Therefore the world is perfect because divine laws like karma rocks.

Why are divine laws like karma relevant to determine whether something is perfect ?

You did not read my replies well. All the info you need is in it. If you do not agree, that's fine with me. I agree to disagree. As I clearly explained.

 

[Koldo]

You did not read my replies well. All the info you need is in it. If you do not agree, that's fine with me. I agree to disagree. As I clearly explained.

Do you stand by what you said on that post or don't you ? I am reading your replies. I am trying to make sense of them because you seem not to agree with what you have said before.

If the divine laws are not relevant to determine whether the world is perfect, what is ?

 

[stvdv]

Do you stand by what you said on that post or don't you ? I am reading your replies. I am trying to make sense of them because you seem not to agree with what you have said before.
If the divine laws are not relevant to determine whether the world is perfect, what is ?

I fully agree with what I said before !!!

1) Tell me "Do you want to debate my answer?" If so then I have to disappoint you, you should have asked me if I wanted to debate. I don't want to.
2) Tell me "What is your religion, it does not show?" If you are an atheist then it makes sense that you don't understand my answer

And I never debate people from other religions nor atheists. For me personally (my belief system) debating is useless and makes no sense.

My advise: If you want to debate with someone, first ask the other if he is interested in it. That's how a debate starts. Do not assume I want to debate.

 

[Koldo]

I fully agree with what I said before !!!

1) Tell me "Do you want to debate my answer?" If so then I have to disappoint you, you should have asked me if I wanted to debate. I don't want to.
2) Tell me "What is your religion, it does not show?" If you are an atheist then it makes sense that you don't understand my answer

And I never debate people from other religions nor atheists. For me personally (my belief system) debating is useless and makes no sense.

My advise: If you want to debate with someone, first ask the other if he is interested in it. That's how a debate starts. Do not assume I want to debate.

I want you to clarify your answer by properly replying to my question. That's all.

You are making no sense because you are contradicting yourself. Is English your first language ?

 

[SalixIncendium]

But when I say the World is perfect just the way it is it is more an affirmation of appreciating all the good that comes out of having imperfections.

What about the bad that comes out of those same imperfections?

And while I'm thinking about it, how can something that is perfect in every way have imperfections? Seems a bit contradictory, no?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Yes, the world is really great. It is the people in it that cause hatred and racism and war and many other evil things.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes, the world is really great. It is the people in it that cause hatred and racism and war and many other evil things.

It's interesting that you make a distinction between 'world' and 'people.' For many, 'world' is defined as a collective of the earth, people, and nature.

 

[stvdv]

I want you to clarify your answer by properly replying to my question. That's all.
You are making no sense because you are contradicting yourself. Is English your first language ?

At least I did answer your question. Seems my "English reading skill" is quite okay. Sometimes what you see in others ....

 

[stvdv]

I did not check before, but I see this thread is in "Everything but the kitchen sink \ the social world". That was well thought of by the original poster

Good to know it's not in the debate section. So I just share my idea.

Thanks @SalixIncendium for your good observation "For many, 'world' is defined as a collective of the earth, people, and nature". Hence the problem people have in seeing "the world" as perfect while having so much of "imperfection" in it. Sometimes I also get this feeling. Thinking of Donald Trump I think "what an imperfect president; grabbing kittens and stuff". But I also realize that it needs a thorn to remove a thorn. So sometimes the thorn is just perfect while another thorn (in the eye of the beholder) can be far from perfect, and I would not remove that thorn with another thorn, although I don't know how a surgeon would remove such a thorn; probably also something invented out of the idea and experience of a thorn. So in this moment, for me, there is no problem to see that a thorn can be imperfect while at the same time being perfect.

I find this a very interesting post. I believe to find a personal solution and feeling at peace with it needs a lot of introspection. That's what I will do now.

 

[Koldo]

At least I did answer your question. Seems my "English reading skill" is quite okay. Sometimes what you see in others ....

You did not properly answer my question as I have been repeatedly asking you to clarify your position. But if it makes you happy to think you did then... whatever floats your boat.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There's nothing wrong with the world. The world is perfect just the way it is. Whatever it is you do not like about the world, you do not like it because you only criticize and hate in others what you do not like about your own character. Love is the answer to all the world's problems. But first you have to start by looking in the mirror. Only after you can appreciate and love yourself will you have the capacity to appreciate and love others. Once you get past yourself you will be able to see brilliance in other people. And then you experience the world as the greatest possible place to be in. Treating other people as sacred in the eyes of God means you are sacred in the eyes of God. To get what you want you have to want what you have.

These things always start out perfectly, and end up badly. But I suppose badly is a perfection of its own.

Personally I resonate with only the first two sentences of your opening post. The rest imo is going rather badly or "badly" as it applies to your own preference and view.