Yahcubs777
Active Member
The one and only God to me is Allah Jesus to me is an Prophet, but that does not mean Jesus is wrong to listen to
I understand.
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The one and only God to me is Allah Jesus to me is an Prophet, but that does not mean Jesus is wrong to listen to
Don't throw Aaron under the bus for us. Aaron would never ever sacrifice a human. It would be contrary to the entirety of everything he believed in, or thought was good, or admired. Sacrifice does not give rise to the superstition that Jesus dies for other's sins. That belief is a modern church development. It arises superstitiously, and any connection to Aaron is tenuous and I suggest creative. Its certainly extra-scriptural not from scripture -- possibly from some kind of legend not in the canon. According to canon Jesus death is for his own sin, because Hebrews states that he is made perfect through death. If he dies for his own sin how can he literally be an unblemished sacrifice? There is more going on there than you have given credit for, and then you have guessed (incorrectly I think) that the sacrificial system is to blame and then based upon that Aaron is to blame and worked in some kind of theory about Aaron and the golden calf that goes far beyond what canon states. Aaron would never allow the sacrifice of a human, according to canon anyway; and he would never let one man die in the place of another who had sinned. It just would not happen, so this progression as you've presented is unfair.That whole sacrificial system is not the way of GOD. That is an occultic practice taught to Aaron by the priest of Medes. That is what gave room for the lie that Jesus His Pre-Eminence died for the sons of all mankind as that is an advancement of the sacrificial system.
Neither does Aaron desire blood far as I can tell, but he's the descendant of angry Levi and is thus is charged with being the balm for those who fail in anger. He's a priest, may never inherit land, must spend his time teaching people to be patient, feeding the useless and the vagabonds and settling disputes and keeping the politically connected from squashing the less fortunate. Those are just some of his duties. Its hardly some evil golden calf scheme.GOD does not desire blood. No blood of animal can atone for sins. The lamb killed is Father Adam, and that one lb is supposed to represent him to remember what he did for us. And this was a system built on error, the Aaronic system.
My GOD is not a ritualist. My GOD does not love the smell of sacrificed animals as they wrote. My GOD did not sacrifice HIS son.
I meant it rhetorically and did not mean to inquire. According to canon you can't love God who you can't see if you can't love people whom you can see, so it would be fake to claim to love God but mistreat people. This was not intended as an inquiry but a reminder as part of the paragraph about whatever we were discussing, just borrowing 1John's argument. Here's the source of the rhetorical (already answered) question:Here is the answer to your question. You cannot love who you have not known.
I meant it rhetorically and did not mean to inquire. According to canon you can't love God who you can't see if you can't love people whom you can see, so it would be fake to claim to love God but mistreat people. This was not intended as an inquiry but a reminder as part of the paragraph about whatever we were discussing, just borrowing 1John's argument. Here's the source of the rhetorical (already answered) question:
Sourced from:
[1Jo 4:20 NIV] 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
Don't throw Aaron under the bus for us. Aaron would never ever sacrifice a human. It would be contrary to the entirety of everything he believed in, or thought was good, or admired. Sacrifice does not give rise to the superstition that Jesus dies for other's sins. That belief is a modern church development. It arises superstitiously, and any connection to Aaron is tenuous and I suggest creative. Its certainly extra-scriptural not from scripture -- possibly from some kind of legend not in the canon. According to canon Jesus death is for his own sin, because Hebrews states that he is made perfect through death. If he dies for his own sin how can he literally be an unblemished sacrifice? There is more going on there than you have given credit for, and then you have guessed (incorrectly I think) that the sacrificial system is to blame and then based upon that Aaron is to blame and worked in some kind of theory about Aaron and the golden calf that goes far beyond what canon states. Aaron would never allow the sacrifice of a human, according to canon anyway; and he would never let one man die in the place of another who had sinned. It just would not happen, so this progression as you've presented is unfair.
Neither does Aaron desire blood far as I can tell, but he's the descendant of angry Levi and is thus is charged with being the balm for those who fail in anger. He's a priest, may never inherit land, must spend his time teaching people to be patient, feeding the useless and the vagabonds and settling disputes and keeping the politically connected from squashing the less fortunate. Those are just some of his duties. Its hardly some evil golden calf scheme.
I think I'm seeing some obstacles.The Golden Calf is not what I was referring to at all. That was not explained well. But it's like how Nebuchadnezzar set up an image of Gold and the people had to worship it. I will not go into detail here, this height of Revelation is one I will keep to myself.
Secondly, I am not throwing Aaron under the bus at all, that is what happened. The very priest of Medes was a priest of an occultic practice called Azazeal. And that practice is what he taught Aaron. And it was Jethro idea to Moses to let Aaron handle it. You should read it again and you'll see. Yet Moses listening to his father in-law was a mistake on his part, as he should have been hearkening to GOD only. That said, Moses had the keys of the kingdom and whatsoever he binds in the earth, is also bound in heaven as was told Apostle Peter. For Moses is the 4th Angel of the 4th Church age.
Probably because you want everybody to agree with your interpretations..... is that it?I have been making threads asking people to look deeper into the parables of Jesus His Pre-Eminence to better understand the messages that Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached. But i can now see that it is not really helping.
Matthew 15
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
John 4
21 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Then look at another Jesus His Pre-Eminence spoke:
Matthew 6
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
In 1Kings chapter 13 there is a daunting story of one prophet lying to another. He lies, and because of the lie his friend the other prophet is put to death; yet the liar is still a prophet of the LORD. That prophet wasn't truthful.The point of this thread was to show that the Prophets know their GOD and worship HIM in Spirit and in truth. They love GOD. Best t there are many claiming to love HIM also yet they do not even know the GOD at all. How can you love any person that you have not known? Empathy, compassion is not love, that I understand. But to love someone you don't know is actually impossible.
I meant it rhetorically and did not mean to inquire. According to canon you can't love God who you can't see if you can't love people whom you can see, so it would be fake to claim to love God but mistreat people. This was not intended as an inquiry but a reminder as part of the paragraph about whatever we were discussing, just borrowing 1John's argument. Here's the source of the rhetorical (already answered) question:
Sourced from:
[1Jo 4:20 NIV] 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
Probably because you want everybody to agree with your interpretations..... is that it?
You excludsed important information about the above.
Jesus was not saying this at the woman but to the woman about the Priesthood.
Look:- Matthew {15:1} Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which
were of Jerusalem, saying, ............
He was only rep[eating what the Baptist had already said..
Now what's your next quote:-
Stop you there........ the woman was a Samaritan and Samaritans carried out the same feasts to the same God but they did so on the Mountain where they believed the first feasts took place. They thought the Temple was rubbish.
For the rest of it, John did like to embellish, I think.
Another:-..............
......... but I don't know many Christians who follow these words in action.
And look at what Jesus said about the Gentiles!
Ay, I read what Jesus said, I do.
I just read it differently to you.
I was not reading your ideas Yahcubs, I was reading what Jesus said.Reading what HE said and understanding it are two different things. I am saying in this thread, that the Prophets worshipped HIM in Spirit and Truth. You are even reading what I said differently from what I meant
In 1Kings chapter 13 there is a daunting story of one prophet lying to another. He lies, and because of the lie his friend the other prophet is put to death; yet the liar is still a prophet of the LORD. That prophet wasn't truthful.
There's another daunting story in 1Kings 22 where the LORD sends a spirit to lie through prophets to cause trouble somewhere. Now that's a difficult story which does not fit into most systematic theology. It says the LORD sends a deceiving spirit it says to go and cause some prophets to lie. That's canon, too. I scratched my head about that one for a long time. Similarly those were some prophets who were not truthful.
The text says that all of the Jews are near to the LORD because of the Torah, and in some places they are all called prophets such as in 1 Chronicles 16. There are prophets and then there are prophets to prophets. Maybe everybody is a prophet when they go into the temple?
Here is the claim to prophecy which makes any given Jewish person a prophet, potentially:
[Deu 4:7-8 NIV] 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?
I was not reading your ideas Yahcubs, I was reading what Jesus said.
I have been making threads asking people to look deeper into the parables of Jesus His Pre-Eminence to better understand the messages that Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached. But i can now see that it is not really helping. The reason is because i have seen many people do not take the Words of Jesus His Pre-Eminence seriously to the point that it is imperative for them to know and understand them. It seems like they also do not feel that they should. Its just a parable so as long as we have known what salvation is, its not really important. I on the other hand do not see it that way. To me, ALL the Words of Jesus His Pre-Eminence above all. And i am not just saying this with the lips, rather, this is a confession of my rating of HIS Words. So for me, the parables have in them the very core message that Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached.
So rather than focus on the parables, let us discuss the teachings of Jesus His Pre-Eminence.
Here are a few verses that i hope we can look deeper into, knowing the identity of the one speaking, and also being able to see what did come to pass of all that HE said.
Matthew 15
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Wow! Imagine being Isaiah and reading this. The GOD of Isaiah commended him saying he did this well. I read this passage, and it reminds me of another he spoke.
John 4
21 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
I love this passage. The reason is because of verse 23. When you look at the Words of the Psalmist for instance, his words are the kind that i think fits this description. And not just the Psalmist, but all the Prophets.
In the first verse I posted, HE revealed to us that they even worshipping in Jerusalem, and having all these nice things to say, but their hearts are far from HIM. For me, personally, I look at the Prophets and how they desired so much for the Words of GOD to come to them. Not just calling HIM all these nice names, and praising HIM for being their GOD, but also having things to say in knowledge. Reading the Words of the Prophets for me is revealing how to worship HIM in Spirit and in truth.
That its not just going to any church you have accepted as your church, or reading the bible, and praying unceasingly... For me its something that cannot be faked. It comes from deep within the Spirit being of the person, and therefore cannot be faked. And that is what I receive from the Words of the Prophets; that how to worship HIM in Spirit and in truth is knowing HIM, HIS Ways, HIS ordanances, HIS laws, HIS Words, understanding them as HE meant them to be understood, and having a deep desire for HIS Revelations, HIS Most Holy Character, HIS Most Holy Nature; knowing HIS love experientially, not assumiing it, knowing HIS Fatherhood, understanding that HIS Fatherhood is not an assumption, but genetic.
So what i am trying to point out, is that HE made it clear here that the true worshippers (which means there are the false, the ones that are not worshipping), worship HIM in Spirit and in truth. And it was written like it hasn't happened before. But then what about Daniel, David, Isaiah, Elijah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, did they not worship the GOD they know in Spirit and in truth? Yes they did.
So it was here that HE revealed that they had not been doing it. And what would cause that? They had with them the scrolls of the Prophets. They had Revelations of the GOD given to them by the Prophets sent to them. That revealed to me, that just knowing that GOD is the Provider, knowing that was said, is still not worshipping HIM in Spirit and in truth. When Abraham called a place, Jehovah Jireh, it was out of knowledge of how the GOD is.
Many people call GOD their provider, and thank HIM for the food and shelter, and family and so on that they have. Great. But is that really coming from a place of knowledge? Or is it just repeating what was written? What about all the people that do not have food, shelter, and family, and so on. Is it that the GOD that provided that for you, does not provide it for them? So you are saying that GOD is partial? This is what I mean. So then my question would be, what is HE providing for you?
i think that this is an important question to ask. For the GOD said that the true worshippers worship HIM in Spirit and in truth. I desire to be in that fold that worship HIM in Spirit and truth.
When they say things like: No one is like unto thee, it sounds nice. But its not true. What about the person that was written: And GOD made Man in HIS image and after HIS likeness? And that is not all Man, just one. What about King David who was referred to as Man after GOD's own heart?
When they say things like: O God, thou is so good! I am so thankful for all that I have. I want to worship you. And things that sound nice, but are they really speaking from personal experiential knowledge of the GOD?
Will you say to your biological father: Thank you dad for providing a roof over my head, and giving me my food, and my bed to sleep in, and my clothes to wear? LIkely no. Because that is expected. You being the child should be provided for by your parents. Its not something you feel should be thanked. But you expect that out of the love they have for you, and your dependence on them.
Then look at another Jesus His Pre-Eminence spoke:
Matthew 7
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
And another..
Matthew 6
25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Why would I be thanking GOD for these, if my GOD is my Father? Do you thank your biological parents for them seriously? And this is what I mean by speaking in knowledge. What GOD Provides for me, is HIS Revelations that reveal HIS Most Holy Character. The Spirit searcheth the deep things of GOD. Oh! Worship HIM in Spirit and in truth! I thank the GOD for providing me with HIS bread and wine, which is much more precious to me than the perishable things of this world. That is what i have known and understood about GOD being my provider.
For me, this is of utmost importance. Not just because I want to be a true worshipper, but because I also do not want to say things to the GOD out of irreverance, or lack of regard for HIM; out of a state of ignorance...
Imagine finding out the person you questioned was the GOD of creation, and HIS reply to you was: Ye err because ye know not the scriptures.
I have understood that I am addressing the GOD. Its not something that should just be anyhow. Just because I hear some people calling HIM names, doesn't mean I will say it. But if i have known it is true, by revelation, then I will say it knowing that I all i speak to HIM is from the deep within my Spirit Being.
Pre eminence is referring to someone distinguished as in above or more important or even distinguished comparing all. But Jesus in Christian theology is "God". So who is he above? God is bigger enough.
Does Pre Eminence suit him?
GOD has Pre-Eminence in all things. I am calling HIM GOD when i call HIM Pre-Eminence.
I think I'm seeing some obstacles.
I have read the whole Pentateuch and read nothing about this idea that Moses father in law was incorrect, and instead it seems he was correct. Moses father in law had a good idea, which is implied because Moses judges it to be so. We are also told that Moses flaws are anger, cowardice, poor speech and murder, not pride and there is no mention of him making a bad decision when he tasks the elders with judging. Why would the text go to the trouble of pointing out Moses flaws but leave out what would be a huge mistake? The text says Moses was enhanced with wisdom or spirit or something like that Then some of the wisdom upon Moses (which he probably used to decide the idea was good) was put onto the elders. Where does it suggest the idea was wrong? Again, any time Moses does something wrong he is corrected and told what he did wrong, but he is not corrected for making this decision. Therefore the text implies he makes the correct decision to place some of the burden of leadership onto other people.
The text says Balaam priest of Midian offers to the LORD, so why would Moses father in law, also a priest of Midian, do otherwise?
At the time the ten commandments have not yet been given, however shouldn't Moses honor his father in law? The Torah is not supposed to be just something ad hoc but based upon principles of reality, so it could be argued I think that even though the Torah is given after the fact Moses still should honor his father in law. Abram obeys his father, and Isaac obeys Abraham, and Jacob obeys Isaac and so on. Moses takes his father in law's advice. It makes sense.
I suppose its alright. Just that every day I hear priests being called pre eminence. Like a head priest in a Catholic Church. Never heard Jesus being called that by a Christian.
Anyway. Its your prerogative.
This is Matthew probably a Jewish Christian writing to other Jewish Christians, so they are probably very well conversant with Leviticus and are catching his allusion to Leviticus 26 which says "If you are careful to keep my commands etc." then "I will grant peace in your land...and the sword will not pass through your country." He's not actually talking about them killing each other which would be unthinkable for them. Keep in mind, too, that 'Earth' is Israel to them, not a planet or a continent. It may even refer to the tribes scattered wherever they are. They aren't talking about planets or continents, so the division is in Israel itself over this decision. I think its a choice about circumcising new converts who aren't Jewish, but whether I'm wrong about that or not Matthew alludes to Leviticus 26, he's not talking about them killing each other, and its a decision that will divide families. He's also implying that something is not right in Israel, or there would not be a sword but peace instead. Remember also that later in the story when the guards come to arrest Jesus he makes sure that Peter has a sword, just as a prop, just Peter and only one sword. That sword is a prophecy prop, like the time Ezekiel lies upon his side. With the sword Jesus is making a statement alluding to Leviticus 26.How can you link this passage with:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
1Kings made me scratch my head, but its not authoritative. Its in the canon to learn from, and some things in it are good and some demonstrate bad on purpose. Prophets shouldn't lie, but there is a story here about what happens when they do. Who is to say whether these prophets of the LORD actually lied? It could just be a story, but its here for our benefit. Its like eating watermelon. When I eat watermelon I spit out the seeds. I don't force myself to eat them though they're part of the melon. The seeds and the rind are both important even though they are not tasty.Prophets which are True do not speak lies. GOD cannot send a lying Spirit. The issue has been the fact that they did not differentiate between the GOD of creation, and who they Prophesied for.
I know what you are referring to, but it's not exactly perfectly written. And to understand this, you first need to know who the GOD is. For example, if you understand that GOD is all knowing, and that HE cannot make mistakes, you will question Genesis 6 for you can see it is not in agreement with GODs Most Holy Character and abilities. There are so many examples. The book of revelation reveals a little about it speaking of the harlot who has names of blasphemy written on her. Among those blasphemies is the things they did to the Bible. And that should also show you, they have been around for a very long time dating back to before Moses.
Nimrod was a wizard. They wrote in the Bible that he was a mighty hunter before the LORD. Blasphemy! This is a man that later married his own mother in an attempt to do something. He also was the first to implement their blue print of Babylon, by building 4 cities in the land of Shinar. Just as their are 4 kingdoms of Babylon. And the tower they build was the tower of Babel. This is another example.
So those chapters were revealing that these men prophesied in the name of GOD but we're not actually Prophets. What of the 450 prophets of Baal that were beheaded by Elijah? Were they also prophets of the LORD?
Not true at all. Scripture has its meaning no matter how the people give their own interpretations. The meaning isn't determined by the people. But as I said, GOD transcends religion.