1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The Words spoken by Jesus His Pre-Eminence.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Yahcubs777, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    I understand.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    30,952
    Ratings:
    +11,757
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    Don't throw Aaron under the bus for us. Aaron would never ever sacrifice a human. It would be contrary to the entirety of everything he believed in, or thought was good, or admired. Sacrifice does not give rise to the superstition that Jesus dies for other's sins. That belief is a modern church development. It arises superstitiously, and any connection to Aaron is tenuous and I suggest creative. Its certainly extra-scriptural not from scripture -- possibly from some kind of legend not in the canon. According to canon Jesus death is for his own sin, because Hebrews states that he is made perfect through death. If he dies for his own sin how can he literally be an unblemished sacrifice? There is more going on there than you have given credit for, and then you have guessed (incorrectly I think) that the sacrificial system is to blame and then based upon that Aaron is to blame and worked in some kind of theory about Aaron and the golden calf that goes far beyond what canon states. Aaron would never allow the sacrifice of a human, according to canon anyway; and he would never let one man die in the place of another who had sinned. It just would not happen, so this progression as you've presented is unfair.

    Neither does Aaron desire blood far as I can tell, but he's the descendant of angry Levi and is thus is charged with being the balm for those who fail in anger. He's a priest, may never inherit land, must spend his time teaching people to be patient, feeding the useless and the vagabonds and settling disputes and keeping the politically connected from squashing the less fortunate. Those are just some of his duties. Its hardly some evil golden calf scheme.
     
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    30,952
    Ratings:
    +11,757
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    I meant it rhetorically and did not mean to inquire. According to canon you can't love God who you can't see if you can't love people whom you can see, so it would be fake to claim to love God but mistreat people. This was not intended as an inquiry but a reminder as part of the paragraph about whatever we were discussing, just borrowing 1John's argument. Here's the source of the rhetorical (already answered) question:

    Sourced from:
    [1Jo 4:20 NIV] 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    The point of this thread was to show that the Prophets know their GOD and worship HIM in Spirit and in truth. They love GOD. Best t there are many claiming to love HIM also yet they do not even know the GOD at all. How can you love any person that you have not known? Empathy, compassion is not love, that I understand. But to love someone you don't know is actually impossible.
     
  5. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    The Golden Calf is not what I was referring to at all. That was not explained well. But it's like how Nebuchadnezzar set up an image of Gold and the people had to worship it. I will not go into detail here, this height of Revelation is one I will keep to myself.

    Secondly, I am not throwing Aaron under the bus at all, that is what happened. The very priest of Medes was a priest of an occultic practice called Azazeal. And that practice is what he taught Aaron. And it was Jethro idea to Moses to let Aaron handle it. You should read it again and you'll see. Yet Moses listening to his father in-law was a mistake on his part, as he should have been hearkening to GOD only. That said, Moses had the keys of the kingdom and whatsoever he binds in the earth, is also bound in heaven as was told Apostle Peter. For Moses is the 4th Angel of the 4th Church age.
     
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    30,952
    Ratings:
    +11,757
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    I think I'm seeing some obstacles.

    I have read the whole Pentateuch and read nothing about this idea that Moses father in law was incorrect, and instead it seems he was correct. Moses father in law had a good idea, which is implied because Moses judges it to be so. We are also told that Moses flaws are anger, cowardice, poor speech and murder, not pride and there is no mention of him making a bad decision when he tasks the elders with judging. Why would the text go to the trouble of pointing out Moses flaws but leave out what would be a huge mistake? The text says Moses was enhanced with wisdom or spirit or something like that Then some of the wisdom upon Moses (which he probably used to decide the idea was good) was put onto the elders. Where does it suggest the idea was wrong? Again, any time Moses does something wrong he is corrected and told what he did wrong, but he is not corrected for making this decision. Therefore the text implies he makes the correct decision to place some of the burden of leadership onto other people.

    The text says Balaam priest of Midian offers to the LORD, so why would Moses father in law, also a priest of Midian, do otherwise?

    At the time the ten commandments have not yet been given, however shouldn't Moses honor his father in law? The Torah is not supposed to be just something ad hoc but based upon principles of reality, so it could be argued I think that even though the Torah is given after the fact Moses still should honor his father in law. Abram obeys his father, and Isaac obeys Abraham, and Jacob obeys Isaac and so on. Moses takes his father in law's advice. It makes sense.
     
  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,654
    Ratings:
    +6,694
    Religion:
    deist
    Probably because you want everybody to agree with your interpretations..... is that it?

    You excludsed important information about the above.
    Jesus was not saying this at the woman but to the woman about the Priesthood.
    Look:- Matthew {15:1} Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which
    were of Jerusalem, saying, ............

    He was only rep[eating what the Baptist had already said..


    Now what's your next quote:-

    Stop you there........ the woman was a Samaritan and Samaritans carried out the same feasts to the same God but they did so on the Mountain where they believed the first feasts took place. They thought the Temple was rubbish.

    For the rest of it, John did like to embellish, I think.

    Another:-..............

    ......... but I don't know many Christians who follow these words in action.
    And look at what Jesus said about the Gentiles!
    Ay, I read what Jesus said, I do.
    I just read it differently to you. :)
     
  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    30,952
    Ratings:
    +11,757
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    In 1Kings chapter 13 there is a daunting story of one prophet lying to another. He lies, and because of the lie his friend the other prophet is put to death; yet the liar is still a prophet of the LORD. That prophet wasn't truthful.

    There's another daunting story in 1Kings 22 where the LORD sends a spirit to lie through prophets to cause trouble somewhere. Now that's a difficult story which does not fit into most systematic theology. It says the LORD sends a deceiving spirit it says to go and cause some prophets to lie. That's canon, too. I scratched my head about that one for a long time. Similarly those were some prophets who were not truthful.

    The text says that all of the Jews are near to the LORD because of the Torah, and in some places they are all called prophets such as in 1 Chronicles 16. There are prophets and then there are prophets to prophets. Maybe everybody is a prophet when they go into the temple?

    Here is the claim to prophecy which makes any given Jewish person a prophet, potentially:
    [Deu 4:7-8 NIV] 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?
     
  9. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    How can you link this passage with:

    34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

    35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

    36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

    37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
     
  10. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    Reading what HE said and understanding it are two different things. I am saying in this thread, that the Prophets worshipped HIM in Spirit and Truth. You are even reading what I said differently from what I meant
     
  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    19,654
    Ratings:
    +6,694
    Religion:
    deist
    I was not reading your ideas Yahcubs, I was reading what Jesus said.
     
  12. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    Prophets which are True do not speak lies. GOD cannot send a lying Spirit. The issue has been the fact that they did not differentiate between the GOD of creation, and who they Prophesied for.

    I know what you are referring to, but it's not exactly perfectly written. And to understand this, you first need to know who the GOD is. For example, if you understand that GOD is all knowing, and that HE cannot make mistakes, you will question Genesis 6 for you can see it is not in agreement with GODs Most Holy Character and abilities. There are so many examples. The book of revelation reveals a little about it speaking of the harlot who has names of blasphemy written on her. Among those blasphemies is the things they did to the Bible. And that should also show you, they have been around for a very long time dating back to before Moses.

    Nimrod was a wizard. They wrote in the Bible that he was a mighty hunter before the LORD. Blasphemy! This is a man that later married his own mother in an attempt to do something. He also was the first to implement their blue print of Babylon, by building 4 cities in the land of Shinar. Just as their are 4 kingdoms of Babylon. And the tower they build was the tower of Babel. This is another example.

    So those chapters were revealing that these men prophesied in the name of GOD but we're not actually Prophets. What of the 450 prophets of Baal that were beheaded by Elijah? Were they also prophets of the LORD?
     
  13. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    You were telling me about the samaritan. woman, and about the pharisees which is not what the thread is really about. Also HE was talking about the hour which cometh, and now is, showing it's a future event. The woman answered HIM in your mindset sure, which HE revealed to her what is going to happen.
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    10,057
    Ratings:
    +2,757
    Pre eminence is referring to someone distinguished as in above or more important or even distinguished comparing all. But Jesus in Christian theology is "God". So who is he above? God is bigger enough.

    Does Pre Eminence suit him?
     
  15. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    GOD has Pre-Eminence in all things. I am calling HIM GOD when i call HIM Pre-Eminence.
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    10,057
    Ratings:
    +2,757
    I suppose its alright. Just that every day I hear priests being called pre eminence. Like a head priest in a Catholic Church. Never heard Jesus being called that by a Christian.

    Anyway. Its your prerogative.
     
  17. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    You are good student of the Word. Great. Then can i go a little deeper? Let us start with a question.

    There was an event that took place, and was written of, regarding Moses and Zipporah regarding the covenant of circumcision.

    21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

    22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

    23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

    24 And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.

    25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.

    26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

    This event is what led to Moses putting her away, divorcing her, and remarrying. And his brother Aaron and his sister Miriam were not in agreement with that, and were judging Moses. And the Word of the LORD came saying: If there be a Prophet among you, i will make myself known to him in a vision and speak unto him in adream, , but Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house, to him will I speak face to face.

    1And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it. 3(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.) 4And the LORD spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out. 5And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

    6And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

    7My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

    8With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

    This is a secret that I am about to reveal.

    What led to Moses divorcing Zipporah, is the fact that Moses had understood where that confession came from. And it revealed to Moses the kind of woman that she was. Meaning, she was an occultic woman. Her father, jethro a priest of an occult. Who was the priest of GOD if not Moses? What was Jethro to GOD? There was no one besides Moses who GOD made HIMSELF known to by the burning bush, and who GOD sent to deliver the people out of Egypt. Is it that Jethro was a priest of the GOD of creation? No, Jethro had his religion, and it was called Azazeal.

    Azazeal is the belief that one can evade consequences for their actions, by having a scape goat to take all the blame of the person, and anything that was destined to happen to the person will now happen to the black goat, so that the man or woman can walk away free of their consequences, that the Law of justification should hold against them. For example, there is the Law of justification operating in the earth which the GOD set, and ordered. If a Man should kill a man, that man will also be killed. They wrote it in the bible saying: An eye for an eye.. This Law treats everyone as equals; jews and gentiles alike; it is not partial. And it is Just.

    So what a priest of this religion does, is he dresses up a black goat with all the persons belongings, and sends the scape goat to go one way, and tells the person to go the other way. This is one example. You will see in the book of Daniel, that Nebuchadnezzar has his tree completely hewn down... This will not make any sense to a person that has not any knowledge of the enemies of the mankind race, and what they do ritualistically... Their practices which are an abomination. This is very deep to explain. But here is an example. A witch or wizard will target someone by going after their tree kind. Every man has this tree kind. And a witch or wizard cannot attack one of their own. That simply means that a tare cannot be targeted by witchcraft.

    One thing that they will do to save someone from death coming from them is they will discover the persons tree kind, then they will cut out part of the tree at the same height of the person. They will dress that tree with the belongings of the person, and they will bury it as if they have just buried the person. This is what they do when a client comes to them after say murdering another, to avoid that law of justification.

    The Children of the kingdom have not understood their enemy at all. They claim everything satan and still do not know what that satan is. Lucifer is who they refer to as Satan, which is not exactly wrong. But Satanism is a religion. And its not the worship of lucifer. Lucifer is a satanist. lucifer has his religion which he practices. You can call their religion a worship of nature.

    Well i really don't want to continue to share these deep revelations this way...

    That sacrificial system that was headed by Aaron is a system built on error. And it was allowed because Aaron represented the Word in that church age. Moses the Law, Aaron the word, and Miriam the Prophet. Just as there is Shedrac, Mishac, and Abednigo who did not bow to the golden image. And then there is Moses, Jesus His Pre-Eminence, and Elijah. And Finally, James, Peter and John... All of these is the Law, the Word and the Prophet in their time period, which is the kingdom authority; the constution of the kingdom of heaven in the earth. At the time Moses was on his journey, and leading the people, Aaron represented the word, not Moses. Moses represented the Law. Miriam the prophet-ess. This foundation is faulty too. How can the one GOD sent be the Law, but not the Word?

    Aaron was the head of that system, and that was a mistake on Moses part. Moses should have handled it all. His father-in laws advice was not good advice... This is why i asked what GOD is he a priest of? For King David said:

    1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

    There is alot of interpretations given as to why Moses was not allowed into Jericho. They wrote that GOD decided he should die. Then later it is written: It is the Will of GOD that none should perish. So then what about Moses?

    Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, unto mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, that is over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession: 50And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: 51Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of MeribahKadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel. 52Yet thou shalt see the land before thee; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel.

    This is where GOD revealed a serious situation. Moses grudged greatly because of the stiff necked people that he was leading. It was not easy for the Great Moses to deal with. And the wandering in the wilderness was revealing that Moses was not bringing out the accurate revelations from GOD. A wilderness place is any place where the Word of GOD is not. This is a spiritual definition, not a lliteral one. Its also because of what Moses was defining. Anyway, the waters from the rock is the revelations from GOD, concrete revelations from GOD. And it was brought up again by Jesus His Pre-Eminence after HE revealed that Apostle Peter understood HIS identiy by Revelation.

    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    The Rock is not on Apostle Peters name, or his bones, but on Revelations about who the GOD is! Revelations about who the Son of GOD is. Revelations about who the Son of Man is. And so on. HE started by asking them: Who do they say that I am? Who does thou sayt that i am? That rock which Moses striked, was revealing that he did not dispense the revelations GOD was giving him. That was the reason for "speak to it"... That wasn't about belief that his words would cause the rock to give water, but that his words are supposed to contain Revelations about the GOD which are accurate. The earth is a rock. And what brought forth the earth is water.

    So there is alot that was written, that has waited for the day that the one GOD sent would be throwing light on it all, from Enoch all the way to Apostle Peter, and then also having his own message to share to the people to prepare her for the 2nd coming. And this is among them.
     
  18. Yahcubs777

    Yahcubs777 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2021
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +91
    Religion:
    None.
    That is actually why i do it. Catholics call each other that, but could not give that to the GOD they claim to worship? We are supposed to hallow the name of GOD, what they are doing is praising themselves.
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    30,952
    Ratings:
    +11,757
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    This is Matthew probably a Jewish Christian writing to other Jewish Christians, so they are probably very well conversant with Leviticus and are catching his allusion to Leviticus 26 which says "If you are careful to keep my commands etc." then "I will grant peace in your land...and the sword will not pass through your country." He's not actually talking about them killing each other which would be unthinkable for them. Keep in mind, too, that 'Earth' is Israel to them, not a planet or a continent. It may even refer to the tribes scattered wherever they are. They aren't talking about planets or continents, so the division is in Israel itself over this decision. I think its a choice about circumcising new converts who aren't Jewish, but whether I'm wrong about that or not Matthew alludes to Leviticus 26, he's not talking about them killing each other, and its a decision that will divide families. He's also implying that something is not right in Israel, or there would not be a sword but peace instead. Remember also that later in the story when the guards come to arrest Jesus he makes sure that Peter has a sword, just as a prop, just Peter and only one sword. That sword is a prophecy prop, like the time Ezekiel lies upon his side. With the sword Jesus is making a statement alluding to Leviticus 26.

    The reason it doesn't conflict with 1John is that its not actually suggesting real hate or violence but this pivotal disagreement which Jesus implies has come because of a failure in some way to keep the Torah. The Torah has in some way not been kept, so the world is out of balance. Strife will result.


    1Kings made me scratch my head, but its not authoritative. Its in the canon to learn from, and some things in it are good and some demonstrate bad on purpose. Prophets shouldn't lie, but there is a story here about what happens when they do. Who is to say whether these prophets of the LORD actually lied? It could just be a story, but its here for our benefit. Its like eating watermelon. When I eat watermelon I spit out the seeds. I don't force myself to eat them though they're part of the melon. The seeds and the rind are both important even though they are not tasty.

    Prophets of Baal are not prophets of the LORD and say it, so that does not confuse me.

    Nimrod (mentioned in Genesis) is not well explained in the canon, however some people say he is this or that. There are legends about him, but I don't know the legends. A 'Mighty hunter before the LORD' is not necessarily a compliment. It likely is a derogatory phrase. Elsewhere in Genesis when Jacob contends with his brother Esau, the LORD chooses the poor hunter (Jacob with feminine features) who is second born instead of the good hunter (Esau who has manly features) who is firstborn. By calling Nimrod a 'Mighty hunter before the LORD' the author of Genesis is probably singling him out as undesireable. Jews are herdsmen, and they aren't allowed to eat most hunted game..possibly none...depending. Its usually considered unkosher. Animals have to be slaughtered a certain way. The implication is more than just that Nimrod is a hunter but that he is somehow displeasing the LORD.
     
  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    32,081
    Ratings:
    +10,922
    Religion:
    Process of Spiritual Healing
    It doesn't. That's just your religion. Not sure why religious in your practice needs to speak for all people. Life just doesn't work that way.
     
    #40 Unveiled Artist, Apr 7, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...