The Word

[rrobs]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

 

[Nakosis]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

I suppose it depends on the narrative you want. I was told it refers to the "Word" of creation. Basically a blueprint for creation. God gave reality to all of the physical/natural laws that are our universe via the Word. Some confuse the Bible with the Word of God. Some think this Word of creation was encoded within the Bible. IOW, everything that exists or will be is encoded in the Bible. I'm not sure that one narrative is any better than another.

 

[sun rise]

I was told it refers to the "Word" of creation. Basically a blueprint for creation.

That's my frame of reference as well.

 

[Kenny]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

There are two Greek words for "word". Logos and Rhema.

Within Logos there are many definitions one being:

1. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates achanging universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose inJohn 1.

Strongs Concordance.

The Word of God is a Logos word as it is the Word of God. Rhema is when a Word from God becomes alive with power to the person who is receiving it.

 

[rrobs]

I suppose it depends on the narrative you want.

If such a thing were true, then why wouldn't it apply to everything that is spoken?

I think it fair to say you understood perfectly well what I'm asking. It is a simple question made up of simple words (logos in Greek). Words are used to communicate. Normally, we all have the same understanding of those words. We normally don't employ the concept of wanting a particular narrative. We just read or hear what's written or spoken.

To be clear, I'm not talking at all about believing what's written. I'm just looking at what is written. It is written. I'm talking about a specific usage of a word in the statement.

 

[Brickjectivity]

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?"

In John chapter 1 Jesus is either the Logos or is the light which proceeds from the logos, or else one of the two is his ministry. If you consider the first three chapters together then the last choice seems to fit best.

 

[Terry Sampson]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament.

"256" huh? Strong's Greek: 3056. λόγος (logos) -- 331 Occurrences

As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus.

You may want to consider adding: Revelation 19:13 to your short list.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?"

Could be because:

• Revelation 19:11-16 says:
  • 11. Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is "The Word of God". 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
    
    

 

[The Anointed]

There are two Greek words for "word". Logos and Rhema.

Within Logos there are many definitions one being:

1. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates achanging universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose inJohn 1.

Strongs Concordance.

The Word of God is a Logos word as it is the Word of God. Rhema is when a Word from God becomes alive with power to the person who is receiving it.

The eternal energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that it [The Eternal Energy] has become, 'The collective consciousness of all that it is.'

In fact, it has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion. Quantum physicists discovered that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.

Nothing is solid & everything is energy: scientists explain the world of quantum physics

If you observed the composition of an atom with a microscope you would see a small, invisible tornado-like vortex, with a number of infinitely small energy vortices called quarks and photons. These are what make up the structure of the atom. As you focused in closer and closer on the structure of the atom, you would see nothing, you would observe a physical void. The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

Excerpt from the above link. "The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a 'GREAT THOUGHT' rather than a great machine. The mind seems to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, but rather a creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, « the mental world »; Nature 436: 29, 2005)

The root to the word “BRAHMAN” originally meant “SPEECH”, much the same as the “LOGOS” is said to mean ‘WORD.

Shabda Brahman From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shabda OR SHABDA STANDS FOR ‘WORD’ MANIFESTED BY SOUND [VERBAL]

Bhartrhari speaks about the creative power of shabda, the manifold universe is a creation of Shabda Brahman

The Rig Veda states that Brahman extends as far as Vāc (R.V.X.114.8), and has hymns in praise of ‘SPEECH AS THE CREATOR.’

The Greek word “LOGOS” which has been translated as “WORD”, should be seen as ‘The thoughts in the mind which are to be expressed.

The term, “LOGOS” pertains to the very plan from the outset. [The creation of a universal body in which a Supreme mind or personality of Godhead to that body, develops.] In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vach.' Vach means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vach has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.

The Logos/word, should be seen as the gathered information of past aeons that is waiting to be expressed. The LOGOS, as with Brahman, are in fact, the invisible living universal mind, (THE GREAT THOUGHT) in which is gathered all of the information of every universal body throughout all eternity and should be seen as "The essential divine reality of the universe, the eternal spirit from which all being originates, and to which all must return."

Countless universal bodies have burst forth from Brahman=Logos and have retuned to him, each one evolving a little higher than the previous body. The days and nights of Brahman are called manvantara and prayala, Manvantara refers to each period of universal activity and Pralaya refers to the periods of universal darkness or non-being according to our finite minds.

Every living thing within this apparent boundless cosmos, are merely information gatherers for the eternal energy, that Great Thought, which manifests itself as this living universe, which is all that exists. and is the collective consciousness of all that exists, there is nothing that you have ever done or will do in the future, that is not recorded within the ‘GREAT THOUGHT.’

This nano technology, it really frightens me
They can make a flying camera that looks just like a bee
Can spiders, ants, and house flies transmit the things I say
Can our words and all our actions be recorded every day?

I remember back when I was young, I’s no more’n a lad
Sometimes I’d be at home alone and doin something bad
And I’d turn mums crucifix around so He couldn’t see me do it
Now I think of all this nano stuff and I think I might have blew it

Once you understand that God is all, you’d have to be half blind
Not to realise that everything feeds into that great mind
All them spiders in the corners, ants in every crack and nook
Were filming everything I did---now it’s recorded in God’s book.

But that don’t really bother me, cos I know it’s tightly sealed
And only one’s allowed to open it---and you know? somehow I feel
He’s not the sort what runs around accusing everyone
And though He lives in me, one day I’ll be, in Him, ‘God’s only Son.’……… The Anointed.

 

[Nakosis]

If such a thing were true, then why wouldn't it apply to everything that is spoken?

I think it fair to say you understood perfectly well what I'm asking. It is a simple question made up of simple words (logos in Greek). Words are used to communicate. Normally, we all have the same understanding of those words. We normally don't employ the concept of wanting a particular narrative. We just read or hear what's written or spoken.

To be clear, I'm not talking at all about believing what's written. I'm just looking at what is written. It is written. I'm talking about a specific usage of a word in the statement.

I didn't mean you specifically. There were numerous people who wrote different parts of the Bible. I'm not sure we can say each time a specific word is used they all were used with the same meaning in mind.

Myself having been to a few different denominations, I feel they conveyed more certainty about the meaning behind the words of the Bible then they actually had. So my comments about narratives was directed to my own past experience, not you.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

I suppose it depends on the narrative you want. I was told it refers to the "Word" of creation. Basically a blueprint for creation. God gave reality to all of the physical/natural laws that are our universe via the Word. Some confuse the Bible with the Word of God. Some think this Word of creation was encoded within the Bible. IOW, everything that exists or will be is encoded in the Bible. I'm not sure that one narrative is any better than another.

Yes, Hindus refer to That Word, the source and sound of creation, as AUM. Therefore, of course, we would not say it is the Christian Bible, as the Word is often referred to.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

Most Christians believe that John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 mean that Jesus was God. I do not believe that those verses mean that Jesus is God. God cannot become a man because God is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men. We know Jesus was not God because Jesus said that no man has seen God at any time.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I believe that God can never be known except through Manifestations of God which are sent by God. God sent Jesus and Jesus manifested God in the flesh.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Holy Spirit and the Word are the appearance of God. The Spirit and the Word mean the divine perfections that appeared in Jesus Christ, and these perfections were with God. The Word does not mean the body of Jesus but rather the divine perfections manifested in Jesus. Jesus was like a clear mirror and the divine perfections were visible and apparent in this mirror. Therefore, the Word and the Holy Spirit, which signify the perfections of God, are the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, Jesus was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You can't get it any plainer than that. God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. If God had been incarnated in the flesh then God would have become flesh and we would be able to see God; but Jesus said no man has ever seen God.

 

[Dogknox20]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

Logos, (Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”) plural logoi, in ancient Greek philosophy and early Christian theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.

God's creation
Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

God created
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Jesus is God, with out Jesus nothing is made!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made

rrobs You said it yourself... with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. Putting it together; Jesus is God the creator!

 

[The Anointed]

Most Christians believe that John 1:1-3 and John 1:14 mean that Jesus was God. I do not believe that those verses mean that Jesus is God. God cannot become a man because God is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men. We know Jesus was not God because Jesus said that no man has seen God at any time.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I believe that God can never be known except through Manifestations of God which are sent by God. God sent Jesus and Jesus manifested God in the flesh.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Holy Spirit and the Word are the appearance of God. The Spirit and the Word mean the divine perfections that appeared in Jesus Christ, and these perfections were with God. The Word does not mean the body of Jesus but rather the divine perfections manifested in Jesus. Jesus was like a clear mirror and the divine perfections were visible and apparent in this mirror. Therefore, the Word and the Holy Spirit, which signify the perfections of God, are the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, Jesus was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You can't get it any plainer than that. God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. If God had been incarnated in the flesh then God would have become flesh and we would be able to see God; but Jesus said no man has ever seen God.

The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekhinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable. Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekhinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".

The Light of man came In the body of a human being, which he had filled with his spirit and lived with us, and we saw his Sh'khinah, (Dwelling place) the Sh'khinah, or Dwelling place, which was the body of the man Jesus that the Father had prepared for his Son, who was to come down and fill with his spirit, that body that his Father had prepared for him, the earthly dwelling of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

GNB Catholic Study Edition: Hebrew 10: 5; For when the anointed one was about to come into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and burnt offerings you did not want, but a body you have prepared for me, etc.”

That body was the man Jesus, of who we read, before he was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, See Acts 3: 13; Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was A son of God, (Not God’s Son, or THE son of God, but A son of God, check it out in the Appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James, Amplified, or The Revised Standard translations. all Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) HE learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect (through his obedience, and could then be used as the host body through which our God, ‘The Son of Man’ could then revealed himself, through the life, the miracles and the words that would be seen and heard through his obedient servant and earthy image, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority other than that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour.)

The one who God had prepared for his heavenly anointed one, then became the source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who rose Jesus from death and will raise all those, who are united to him also.

It was 'The Son of Man' the only begotten son of God, who said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; ; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

The reason that you believe that the man Jesus was "The Son of Man' is because of the words he spoke, which were not his words, but the words of 'The Son of Man' God's only begotten son.

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus, the earthly temple which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord, which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

We have all sinned, and we must all die once to pay the blood price for the sins of the flesh in which we, the mind/spirits develop.

And "The Son of Man, God's only begotten son, is the only one who can pay the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he developed. The man Jesus still lives.

 

[Thief]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

Jesus spoke as if He and God .....be as one

the Word......the ability to say......I AM!

the power of creation .....in Man
in the Son of Man

 

[The Anointed]

The word for Tabernacle, mishkan, is a derivative of the same root and is used in the sense of dwelling-place in the Bible, e.g. Psalm 132:5 ("Before I find a place for God, mishkanot (dwelling-places) for the Strong One of Israel.") Accordingly, in classic Jewish thought, the Shekhinah refers to a dwelling or settling in a special sense, a dwelling or settling of divine presence, to the effect that, while in proximity to the Shekhinah, the connection to God is more readily perceivable. Some Christian theologians have connected the concept of Shekhinah to the Greek term "Parousia", "presence" "arrival," which is used in the New Testament in a similar way for "Divine Presence".

The Light of man came In the body of a human being, which he had filled with his spirit and lived with us, and we saw his Sh'khinah, (Dwelling place) the Sh'khinah, or Dwelling place, which was the body of the man Jesus that the Father had prepared for his Son, who was to come down and fill with his spirit, that body that his Father had prepared for him, the earthly dwelling of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

GNB Catholic Study Edition: Hebrew 10: 5; For when the anointed one was about to come into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and burnt offerings you did not want, but a body you have prepared for me, etc.”

That body was the man Jesus, of who we read, before he was given divine glory by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, See Acts 3: 13; Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was A son of God, (Not God’s Son, or THE son of God, but A son of God, check it out in the Appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James, Amplified, or The Revised Standard translations. all Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) HE learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect (through his obedience, and could then be used as the host body through which our God, ‘The Son of Man’ could then revealed himself, through the life, the miracles and the words that would be seen and heard through his obedient servant and earthy image, who did, nor spoke one word on his own authority other than that which he was commanded by the Lord our saviour.)

The one who God had prepared for his heavenly anointed one, then became the source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who rose Jesus from death and will raise all those, who are united to him also.

It was 'The Son of Man' the only begotten son of God, who said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; ; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

The reason that you believe that the man Jesus was "The Son of Man' is because of the words he spoke, which were not his words, but the words of 'The Son of Man' God's only begotten son.

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus, the earthly temple which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord, which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say by “Who I Am,” who raised the body of Jesus, the earthly temple, which had been filled with his spirit.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord God our saviour) has fixed a day in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”

We have all sinned, and we must all die once to pay the blood price for the sins of the flesh in which we, the mind/spirits develop.

And "The Son of Man, God's only begotten son, is the only one who can pay the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he developed. The man Jesus still lives.

Mankind developed in the bodies of our animal ancestors. The Son of Man develops within the body of MANKIND.

EVE, is the great pregnant androgynous body of Mankind in whom the 'Son of Man' is developing on the spirits of the righteous, who are gathered within the innermost sanctuary of the temporary tent/tabernacle, behind the veil of the flesh, of mother EVE..

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; "And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason, Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it." Adam died at the age of 930 in the first day.

When Adam was dying at the close of the day in which he ate of the forbidden fruit, Eve ask her Lord when she would follow him, and she was told that she would follow Adam in six days, ie, at the close of the seventh day.

Zephaniah 1: 2-3; The LORD said, “I am going to destroy everything on earth, all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy the whole human race, and no survivors will be left. I, the LORD, have spoken."

Verse 18; On the day when the LORD shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end — a sudden end — to everyone who lives on earth. (Everyone who lives on earth being the operative sentence)

The seventh day is the Lord's day, the great Sabbath of one thousand years, of which the weekly Sabbath, was but a shadow of this future reality, and which is six days from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that day at the age of 930.

At the close of the seventh day Sabbath, according to Revelation 20: 7; heavenly fire will incinerate all physical life forms that remain on this planet, and the body of EVE shall be reunited with her Lord Adam.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

The Greek word "logos" is used 256 times in the New Testament. As far as I can tell, with the exception of John 1:1 & 14, there would be few Christians that would say any of them refer to Jesus. They all are clearly seen as meaning a well thought out and reasoned communication using words, which happens to be the actual main definition in any Greek lexicon.

What makes it's usage in John indicate it means "Jesus?" Why couldn't it be consistent with all the other 252 usages and mean God's thoughts as spoken to mankind, that He had a plan in mind from the beginning which he revealed in the scriptures and which Jesus followed to the letter as per John 1:14?

Hi rrobs. Good morning. Genesis 15:1 tells us that the Word of Yahweh came to Abraham in a vision. How can a word come to someone in a vision? This Word spoke. Yahshua was indeed the Word, the Spokesman for Yahweh, in the Hebrew Scriptures since no man has heard or seen the Father (John 5:37). Yahshua said He pre-existed when He was on this earth.

 

[The Anointed]

Hi rrobs. Good morning. Genesis 15:1 tells us that the Word of Yahweh came to Abraham in a vision. How can a word come to someone in a vision? This Word spoke. Yahshua was indeed the Word, the Spokesman for Yahweh, in the Hebrew Scriptures since no man has heard or seen the Father (John 5:37). Yahshua said He pre-existed when He was on this earth.

I believe that everyone has heard the voice of someone in their dreams, their visions of the night.

And Jesus did not say, "NO man has heard or seen the Father" in John 5: 37. Jesus was answering the condemning Jewish authorities when He said to them; "YOU have never heard his voice etc, But all the prophets had heard the voice of God, and revealed his words to the people. "Thus says the Lord."

 

[Kenny]

The eternal energy which can neither be created nor destroyed, has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that it [The Eternal Energy] has become, 'The collective consciousness of all that it is.'

No... God is the source of all things. We do not represent the collective consciousness because it would not include God

In fact, it has now been revealed that matter is no more than an illusion. Quantum physicists discovered that so called physical atoms are made up of vortices of energy that are constantly spinning and vibrating, each one radiating its own unique energy signature.

All matter consists of light and sound waves which emits energy. God is light and when He said "let their be..." He gave, in the light, all the information that drives what we see.

The Greek word “LOGOS” which has been translated as “WORD”, should be seen as ‘The thoughts in the mind which are to be expressed.

Yes, and it also is the written word. But let us not forget the other word translated "WORD" which is Rhema

The term, “LOGOS” pertains to the very plan from the outset. [The creation of a universal body in which a Supreme mind or personality of Godhead to that body, develops.] In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vach.' Vach means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vach has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.

It can be a spoken word. It becomes a Rhema word when the power is released. "Jesus died for all mankind and if you receive him you will be saved" is a Logos word. But when faith brings it into reality it has become a Rhema word.

"The essential divine reality of the universe, the eternal spirit from which all being originates, and to which all must return."

Depends on what you mean. I have already returned to God yet I am still a spirit, one that is united with God's Spirit, but still an entity in and of its own.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I believe that everyone has heard the voice of someone in their dreams, their visions of the night.

And Jesus did not say, "NO man has heard or seen the Father" in John 5: 37. Jesus was answering the condemning Jewish authorities when He said to them; "YOU have never heard his voice etc, But all the prophets had heard the voice of God, and revealed his words to the people. "Thus says the Lord."

The Anointed. Good afternoon. John 1:18 would have been a better scripture to use. It reads:
"No man hath seen Yahweh at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

If you don't believe in the pre-existence of the Messiah, you clearly have missed Philippians 2:5-11 which says:
"5 Have this mind in you, which was also in Messiah Yahshua: 6 who, existing in the form of Elohim, counted not the being on an equality with Yahweh a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; 8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the torture stake. 9 Wherefore also Yahweh highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; 10 that in the name of Yahshua every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Yahshua the Messiah is Master, to the glory of Yahweh the Father."

John 5:43 tells us that Yahshua came in his Father's Name.

Indeed, if He came in His Father's Name He used the Name, and was even called by it. Indeed, it is consistent with the scriptures that Yahweh always uses a Spokesman, even though that Spokesman was mistaken for the Father. When He spoke it was in the first person. Those people He contacted never saw the Almighty Father Himself; they assumed they were speaking to the Father.

If you've read the Hebrew Scriptures you will see they are instances in the Scripture where the Spokesman speaks of Yahweh and used third person pronouns (He). For verification, we can turn to Isaiah 44:24-26. You will notice how the first and third person pronouns are interchanged. This clearly proves that a Spokesman was communicating messages in the first person and incorporating the third person for clarification.

 

[Hawkins]

If such a thing were true, then why wouldn't it apply to everything that is spoken?

You need to first understand what human witnessing is.

In a car incident, the eyewitnesses know better then anyone else on what actually happened in terms of visibility. What appeared visually during the incident are witnessed by the eyewitnesses. However an expert mechanic is required to explain the incident at the mechanical level. An eyewitness only knows what visually happened but not the mechanical root cause behind the scene. Gospels are from those eyewitnesses who spent time with Jesus to know His deeds and speeches. However someone needs to act as a "mechanic" to explain what is behind Jesus' deeds and speeches. Paul is such a mechanic behind the gospels. John is an eyewitness on the one hand, he's the mechanic to explain Jesus' divinity on the other.