• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Word of God

ManSinha

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
I posted this elsewhere as well

The Gita and the quotes from the Vedas agree with the viewpoints expressed by @dfnj

Sri Krishna states in the Gita 7:12

ye chaiva sāttvikā bhāvā rājasās tāmasāśh cha ye
matta eveti tān viddhi na tvahaṁ teṣhu te mayi

The three states of material existence—goodness, passion, and ignorance—are manifested by my energy. They are in me, but I am beyond them.

Gita 4:13

chātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛiṣhṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśhaḥ
tasya kartāram api māṁ viddhyakartāram avyayam

The four categories of occupations were created by me according to people’s qualities and activities. Although I am the creator of this system, know me to be the non-doer and eternal.

Gita 7:6

etad-yonīni bhūtāni sarvāṇītyupadhāraya
ahaṁ kṛitsnasya jagataḥ prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā

Know that all living beings are manifested by these two energies of mine. I am the source of the entire creation, and into me it again dissolves.

According to the Vedas

naiṣhā tarkeṇa matirāpaneyā (Kaṭhopaniṣhad 1.2.9)[v26]
“God is beyond the scope of our intellectual logic.”

rām atarkya buddhi mana bānī, mata hamāra asa sunahi sayānī (Ramayan)[v28]
“God cannot be analyzed by arguments or reached by words, and intellect.”
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
ManSinha said:
I posted this elsewhere as well

The Gita and the quotes from the Vedas agree with the viewpoints expressed by @dfnj

Sri Krishna states in the Gita 7:12

ye chaiva sāttvikā bhāvā rājasās tāmasāśh cha ye
matta eveti tān viddhi na tvahaṁ teṣhu te mayi

The three states of material existence—goodness, passion, and ignorance—are manifested by my energy. They are in me, but I am beyond them.

Gita 4:13

chātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛiṣhṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśhaḥ
tasya kartāram api māṁ viddhyakartāram avyayam

The four categories of occupations were created by me according to people’s qualities and activities. Although I am the creator of this system, know me to be the non-doer and eternal.

Gita 7:6

etad-yonīni bhūtāni sarvāṇītyupadhāraya
ahaṁ kṛitsnasya jagataḥ prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā

Know that all living beings are manifested by these two energies of mine. I am the source of the entire creation, and into me it again dissolves.

According to the Vedas

naiṣhā tarkeṇa matirāpaneyā (Kaṭhopaniṣhad 1.2.9)[v26]
“God is beyond the scope of our intellectual logic.”

rām atarkya buddhi mana bānī, mata hamāra asa sunahi sayānī (Ramayan)[v28]
“God cannot be analyzed by arguments or reached by words, and intellect.”
Click to expand...
"According to the Vedas

naiṣhā tarkeṇa matirāpaneyā (Kaṭhopaniṣhad 1.2.9)[v26]
“God is beyond the scope of our intellectual logic.”

rām atarkya buddhi mana bānī, mata hamāra asa sunahi sayānī (Ramayan)[v28]
“God cannot be analyzed by arguments or reached by words, and intellect.”

I agree with the above. The truthful religion, I understand, also supports it in many a verse:
"[[2:256]اَللّٰہُ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّا ہُوَۚ اَلۡحَیُّ الۡقَیُّوۡمُ ۬ۚ لَا تَاۡخُذُہٗ سِنَۃٌ وَّ لَا نَوۡمٌ ؕ لَہٗ مَا فِی السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ مَا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ ؕ مَنۡ ذَا الَّذِیۡ یَشۡفَعُ عِنۡدَہٗۤ اِلَّا بِاِذۡنِہٖ ؕ یَعۡلَمُ مَا بَیۡنَ اَیۡدِیۡہِمۡ وَ مَا خَلۡفَہُمۡ ۚ وَ لَا یُحِیۡطُوۡنَ بِشَیۡءٍ مِّنۡ عِلۡمِہٖۤ اِلَّا بِمَا شَآءَ ۚ وَسِعَ کُرۡسِیُّہُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ ۚ وَ لَا یَـُٔوۡدُہٗ حِفۡظُہُمَا ۚ وَ ہُوَ الۡعَلِیُّ الۡعَظِیۡمُ ﴿۲۵۶﴾
Allah — there is no God but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that will intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth; and the care of them burdens Him not; and He is the High, the Great.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 2: Al-Baqarah

Right, please?

Regards
 
Agnostisch

Agnostisch

Egyptian Man
Unveiled Artist said:
Can god exist without his words?

Edit. Is god and his word/scripture are one and the same and cannot exist without each other?
Click to expand...

Because sound (speech) is a physical act that comes only from a physical actor, and God is neither an object nor an actor nor a material object. If God speaks, and speaking is a tangible material act, God must be physically present. But God does not have a physical existence.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
The Bible itself claims that whole creation is His word. And conscious hears it.

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard,
their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
(Psalms 19)

But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
(Deuteronomy 30:14)
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
PearlSeeker said:
The Bible itself claims that whole creation is His word. And conscious hears it.

The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of His hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
Without speech or language,
without a sound to be heard,
their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
(Psalms 19)

But the word is very near you. It is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
(Deuteronomy 30:14)
Click to expand...
One of my favorites psalms. And I do believe that nature does testify to God.

However, the fact that nature praises God is not the same as saying nature speaks for God. You are in very iffy territory indeed. But I appreciate your sharing your POV.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
One of my favorites psalms. And I do believe that nature does testify to God.

However, the fact that nature praises God is not the same as saying nature speaks for God. You are in very iffy territory indeed. But I appreciate your sharing your POV.
Click to expand...
God speaks through nature - that's how I understand this Psalm. This is speech, knowledge, voice nad words without speech, language and sound to be heard.

Maybe some messages in this "book" need prior receipt of some basic concepts in oral or written form. Some don't need any prior knowledge - for example the sheer beauty and glory in sights, structures, functions ... in nature.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
PearlSeeker said:
God speaks through nature - that's how I understand this Psalm. This is speech, knowledge, voice nad words without speech, language and sound to be heard.

Maybe some messages in this "book" need prior receipt of some basic concepts in oral or written form. Some don't need any prior knowledge - for example the sheer beauty and glory in sights, structures, functions ... in nature.
Click to expand...
God can speak through many things, including the words of other people. But I wouldn't call the words of those people the Word of God.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
God can speak through many things, including the words of other people. But I wouldn't call the words of those people the Word of God.
Click to expand...
Yes, but people can distort the message or even lie or make up things. This format is lossy. How about nature? Can nature distort or lie?
 
Messianic Israelite

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Unveiled Artist said:
Can god exist without his words?

Edit. Is god and his word/scripture are one and the same and cannot exist without each other?
Click to expand...

He would still exist. Perhaps Yahweh would find other ways to communicate. Words are very important though, since the Messiah is the Word made flesh we read in John 1:14 and John 6:63 says the words are spirit and life. Over the years there have been those who have tried to destroy the religious texts for this reason.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
God says to help the poor, the sick, the weak, the old. Nature wants them dead. Draw your own conclusions.
Click to expand...
Nature just totally obeys natural laws. Learning and applying moral laws is men's domain. But even in nature you can see this principles, for example in human body: how strong arm and weak arm cooperate... As a Jew maybe you are familiar with Tree of Life and human body correspondence.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
PearlSeeker said:
Nature just totally obeys natural laws. Learning and applying moral laws is men's domain. But even in nature you can see this principles, for example in human body: how strong arm and weak arm cooperate... As a Jew maybe you are familiar with Tree of Life and human body correspondence.
Click to expand...
I'm just saying, there are things about nature that we should NOT learn from.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Milton Platt said:
Sorry....I need to be more plain spoken. Where is the evidence that a god exists at all, much less outside words/scriptures
Click to expand...

Thank you! I can't get around rhetorical and/or sarcastic questions (not you, just in general) to make a point. It's ironic. I try to do the same but never gets that way.

There is no god. I'm assuming those who answer the question assume there is in order to answer the question. God doesn't need to exist to ask questions about it, though. Right?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top