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Featured The Wild Experiment That Showed Evolution in Real Time

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Kangaroo Feathers, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

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    ' Accepting' something has a very different connotation than does 'believing in' something.
     
  2. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    You're using a biological term. That's why people take your meaning in a scientific sense.
    If you're speaking of a 'spiritual' category, maybe a different term would clarify your meaning.
     
  3. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    You mean his theory of natural selection?
    But Natural selection is real. It's observable, testable and reproducible. But biology has come a long way since Darwin, other mechanisms of change have been discovered and studied.

    Calling evolutionary biology "Darwinism" just sounds silly. It's a little like calling medicine Hippocratism. No-one today studies Darwin to learn about evolution.
     
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  4. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Active Member

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    Ahh yes, the famous mice becoming mice experiment that showed that mice become mice.....

    Let's all be honest and admit that what the experiment showed was that a mutation could change the hair color of a mouse. It in no way showed any hint that the mouse could EVER become anything other than a mouse.... Minus the PR of course and dealing only with facts....

    So we will give the experimenters a thumbs up for showing they can change hair color.... and a thumbs down to all those who then interpret it to mean that mice can become anything other than, well, mice....
     
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    What did you expect them to become? "Change of kinds" is a creationist strawman. There is no change of kinds in evolution.

    For example, you share a common ancestor with other great apes, that ancestor was a great ape, you are still a great ape, no change in kind.

    You share a common ancestor with all primates. That ancestor was a primate, you are still a primate. No change of kinds. You share a common ancestor with all mammals. That ancestor was a mammal. You are still a mammal. No change of kind. We could go all the way back to the first life form using this process. What we have is ever increasing diversity of life. The experiment that you are complaining about demonstrated an increase in diversity of life. It confirmed the theory of evolution. Meanwhile there is no scientific evidence for creationism at all. And that is actually the fault of creationists.
     
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  6. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Active Member

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    Ahh yes, the claim that everything remains the same until we get to fish and mammals and reptiles and birds. Then we got to listen to PR about how I am still a fish.....

    I share a common ancestor with humans....

    That's why the random test you use that you claim shows ancestry is not allowed in any court of law to show ancestry.... But believers in pseudoscience often mistake the pseudoscience as being proven science. Even if the test that has been proven to show ancestry is not used, because it doesn't show ancestry between humans and anything but humans......

    But continue with your PR.... while ignoring the fact that your claimed test is not proven to work and is not allowed in any court of law to show relationship....

    no, the experiment showed that mice remain mice.... it showed no diversity in life, merely a change in hair color. No new organs, no new shapes, no diversity at all.

    And then while claiming hair color shows diversity you will claim that the races of men of different color is not important in showing diversity.....

    Then with your belief you should have no problem with me calling you slime, since that about sums up the first life of which you still are, correct????
     
    #106 Justatruthseeker, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No one made that claim. Where did you get that from? And we were never 'slime', so no,that slur fan of be applied. But like it or not you are still an ape.
     
  8. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Active Member

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    How do you know we were never slime? Were you there to observe the first form of life or have you created it in the laboratory? The most obvious first life form in water would be of a type of slime then into corrals and sponges.....

    And yet your claim I a an ape is based as we have already noted on tests that are not actually used in any court of law that have been proven to show relation. instead you have been tricked by the bait and switch and didn't even realize when they switched the proven DNA test with one that randomly compares snippets of DNA unlike the test known to show ancestry.....

    Your claims fall far short of being actual science, and worst yet, they don't even use that test to show relation between humans.....
     
  9. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    Somebody else with no clue. Here is some genetic evidence for you: Genesis and the Genome (pdf)

    There is plenty of objective evidence for common ancestry but two things struck me from this particular article. First, the mutated gene for making egg yoke, present in exactly the place in the human genome you'd expect by comparison with chickens. Second, the fact that the exact disabling mutations of non-functioning olfactory receptor genes can be used to independently confirm the relationship between humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans that had been deduced from other evidence.

    Also, do you think that pretty much everybody who works in this field is stupid? I mean, almost all of them, from multiple cultures, faiths, and nationalities agree that the evidence for evolution is beyond reasonable doubt, while, of the tiny, tiny, tiny minority who disagree, almost all of them have an obvious religious vested interest it it being wrong. Why do you think that is? Believing that evolution isn't sound science is rather like believing the tobacco companies when they were the last people on the planet trying to tell everybody that smoking was safe.
     
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  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Slime is a biological product, it is not life.

    Try again.

    And you I am betting that you do not know what "actual science" is. My claims are supported by the scientific method. Your beliefs are not. One has to keep their understanding of science below that of a high school level to make the mistakes of creationists. Let's go over the basics and work up from there.
     
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    The interesting things about dogs, is we have evolved side-by-side for so very long now we've developed relationships with each other and dogs have developed a gene that basically enhances their ability to evolve, thus giving us the legions off different dog breeds (this was featured on an episode of NOVA).
     
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  12. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Active Member

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    Stupid? Oh no, they are absolutely brilliant. After all they fooled you and millions into believing that a test comparing random segments of DNA was a valid test to show relationships.... despite not being able to be used in a court of law to show relationships....
     
  13. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Active Member

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    Except the Russion Silver Fox experiment showed that simply breeding for domestication leads to the same morphological changes as we see in dogs. they did find one mutation. Which changed the color of the star patter in its fur (oh, think of mice) but otherwise affected morphology not at all.....

    Also we know this is false as the more variation in breeds we produce, the less variation those breeds are able to produce. Variation is being bred out of them, not into them. the wolf already contained all the genetic possibilities for all the breeds, which is being lost with each new variation, not increased......
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    That's really not an "except." That Russian experiment is still fairly new, and it doesn't really reflect how humans and dogs have co-evolved over the millennia. You might as well bring ups pigs, who show us it is very possible for thousands of years of domestication to be undone in a day.
    And do be aware, this is top scientists who have put forth this claim, those who know far more about it than I do. And you seem to be unaware of the fact we are still breeding new breeds of dogs.
     
  15. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    The "Were you there to observe " and the "No one was there to see it" "arguments" are really silly.

    Where I live, there is a huge oak tree. I was not there when it sprouted from a seed. But I know it must have sprouted from a seed. If I cut it down and examine it (well, have it examined, since I am not an expert in reading tree rings) I can determine when the seed sprouted. It doesn't matter that no one saw the seed sprout.
     
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  16. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Define life. Before you go popping off simplistic answers, you should know that science does not agree on a single all-encompassing definition of life.
     
  17. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    That is an incorrect statement. The genetic code allows for continued variation through multiple means. The rate of variation may have slowed down but the ability for new variation continues one and is never lost. That is basic to the genetic structure and function.
     
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  18. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    That is so incorrect. You cannot say that animals do not gain wisdom or spiritual life. There is observational data that contradicts what you would like to believe. Sorry you have to feel superior.
     
  19. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Strange Loop

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    So - you've completely ignored the hard evidence I pointed you to and now you are making to laughable claim that pretty much every scientist in the field is involved in a massive worldwide conspiracy.

    If you're also promoting a young earth, that will have to include not only biology but archaeology, geology, physics, astrophysics, astronomy, cosmology...
     
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  20. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Active Member

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    Sigh...... Claiming conspiracy is usually the first sign someone is in massive denial of the actual facts.

    The only one claiming conspiracy is you.... They simply believe what they say is true, regardless of the fact that the test can not be used in any court of law to show relationship....

    Ptolemy and his followers were certainly involved in no conspiracy.... They just inferred from what they saw that the earth must be the center of the universe and then derived mathematical models to fit their perception of what they thought they saw..... You see what you think is similarity and so believe their is a relationship... What is evolutionists claim? Oh yes, it only "appears" to be designed.....

    Despite your claim this (what you believe to be similar gene) does not produce egg yolk in humans, so it really isn't similar at all, is it....... you just see an "appearance" of similarity.....
     
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