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Featured The watchmaker

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Jul 9, 2018.

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  1. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Then you see the name engraved on it. That person is dead now, eaten by a shark. Or maybe they aren't. Maybe they just didn't like it anymore and tossed it. Or maybe the watch company dumped their trash on the beach.

    Needs more Joe Raposo

    It's designed by erosion, I guess.

    Hell, a lot of gods even got their stuff like swords or lightning bolts or whatever thanks to crafstmen gods. The gods using the special magic things rarely ever actually designed them. They hired it out.

    But who cares? It either tells time or it doesn't.

    A naked Amazonian would at least know what a boat or canoe is, and would most likely recognize the general concept that it is a transportation vehicle.

    Analogies are usually made of words.

    LOL. We are made in God's image, so what does that make God?

    I thought babies just assumed every object was a pacifier.

    Or breed it and have lots of suppers instead of just one. :)

    Ah, been speaking to Q, have you? :)
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Then the flower must have been designed. How else do you explain the complex, purposeful function of the watch... and the flower?

    It's like you walk through a desert, and you find a well built, and furnished house - all wood. After a mile walking, you find a pile of logs, branches, twigs. We don't reason that that explains how the house got there. It's the same material, but it does not explain the stucture of the house.

    Walking a distance further and finding a forest - of trees... of course, doesn't address the question either.

    You still need to explain the seed that the tree (and flower) grew from. The complex process involved in the seed existing in the first place.
    Interestingly, the processes required for the seed being able to produce the tree, the growth of the tree, etc., are more complex than the simple house. Yet, it took someone to build the house.
    Is it reasonable to conclude that the most complex seed required no one to build it?

    It seems more reasonable that someone was responsible for building the more complex things.
    Hence, the Bible's simple statement is reasonable
    Hebrews 3:4
    For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Arguments from ignorance are never very convincing.

    Do you really not.know why this is a terribly flawed argument?
     
  4. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Q? :confused:
     
  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    How do you know that everything around was not designed? Where is that evidence to be found?

    There is no evidence that anything ever builds itself. Therefore, the evidence we currently have, would lead us to infer that everything required a builder. The cause for their existence.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Wrong on all accounts. The burden of proof is upon you to show evidence for a designer. Demanding that others provide evidence when you have none is a poor and transparent failure on your part.

    And things make themselves every day without a designer. Did you skip out on sex ed in school? The stork "theory" is not taken seriously by anyone.
     
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  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    It's more a reasonable comparison.
    If one finds a complex object, and understands, in fact, knows that that complex object did not come about on its own.
    He can use reason and logic, to conclude that objects far more complex would also require a builder - one more advanced in understanding.

    Also, since there is no known fact to the contrary - since it cannot be shown that things build themselves into existence, his argument from logic is sound.
     
  8. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Clearly there is no argument against your logic. None.
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    That one's a bomb. BOOM!
    Thanks for the hard laugh. :laughing:
     
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  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Then by that same "logic" your designer would require a designer as well. And your ignorance is showing again. When it comes to life there is evidence to the contrary. Your "logic" is far from sound.
     
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  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    If we switch the watch with an UFO (unidentified fallen object), your reasoning still fails. The fact that we have never seen the object does not remove the fact that our knowledge of design in our own technology, allows us to infer that it was designed - only its advanced complexity in the design would lead us to think that its builders were more advanced.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is only because you are assuming that a UFO would be built in the same manner that we build today. Right now nothing that man makes comes near to the capability of a UFO. Interstellar transportation is impossible for man with our current technology. And the advances needed are so massive and all encompassing that a UFO may not look like anything built when it is finished. It may look like a cloud, or a rock formation, or even a strange looking life form that we could not recognize. Machines in the future may evolve just as man did. Nanomchinery may be self reproducing at some point in the future and that would open up a whole world of new "made things" that would not be recognized as us as such today.
     
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  13. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Things make themselves every day without a designer. Fulllstop.
    I cannot give you an example though. Fulllstop.
    They just do. Fulllstop.
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to life there is evidence to the contrary. Fulllstop.
    I can't show you any evidence though. Fulllstop.
    There just is. Fulllstop.
     
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  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Point? Whatever it looks like... it was built.
    Man evolved? Sure... after he was built.
    What evidence is there otherwise?
    Only speculation. Guesswork.
     
  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    So God needs a creator?
     
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  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No, you are projecting your flaws upon others. Scientists merely look for evidence and analyze the evidence. Where is the evidence for your designer? None can be found that I know of.

    By the way, if you can't give an example then you are almost surely bearing false witness against others. The Ninth Commandment is more than a ban on lying. If you attack someone, as you just have, then you need to be able to support that claim. It does not matter if you believe your claim, you could be wrong. That would make it false witness. As a Christian you should tread lightly when making claims about others.
     
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  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There is no such evidence that I know of. And at least this time you are not bearing false witness against others. You are merely spewing nonsense. If you know that there is evidence then you can present it. It looks like all you have is mere belief and your belief is obviously wrong.
     
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  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The problem is with the UFO example is that you might not be able to tell that it was built. You are once again assuming that it was built in the same way we build things. And no, man was never built. There is no evidence for that that I know of and you have not been able to provide any. Meanwhile I can provide evidence for man's evolution. But I am betting that "evidence" is a concept that you do not understand either.

    And of course for a UFO all we would have is speculation and guesswork. Interstellar travel may very well be impossible. You brought up an example that requires speculation and guess work and when shown to be wrong you complained about that. That is highly hypocritical on your part. You should have just admitted that you used a poor example.
     
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  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Can you give one reason why the beginning would require a creator?
     
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