1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The watchmaker

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Jul 9, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    5,929
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Religion:
    Atheist
    you knew the watch was designed because you contrasted it to everything around it, which was not designed. Otherwise, the watch would have no significance to you in that regard. You also have evidence of the existence of watchmakers. You can go to a factory and see a watch being manufactured.
    This argument has been debunked long ago.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,555
    Ratings:
    +3,583
    What premise? All I see is an incomplete sentence.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    8,005
    Ratings:
    +559
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    That an atheist is making an analogy to avoid dealing with the question.
     
  4. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580
    Why not?
     
  5. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    5,929
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Then why did you find the watch significant?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580
    Why not?
     
  7. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,246
    Ratings:
    +1,651
    And....? This doesn't sound as if it's a complete thought. Shouldn't you have then added something like, Do you:

    1. Put an ad in the paper for anyone who lost a watch on the beach.
    2. Turn the watch into local authorities to see if it's claimed.
    3. Pocket the watch and figure finders keepers.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    53,709
    Ratings:
    +12,685
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    If the beach is also designed, in what way does the watch stand out from the beach?

    Do you understand that the analogy you're using assumes a contrast between the undesigned sand of an undesigned beach and a designed watch laying on that sand?

    Otherwise, you've just got a watch in a sea of watches and no particular reason to point to one particular watch and say that it's special.

    An a priori assumption, I'm guessing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    5,929
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Why did you point out the watch instead of the beach, or the trees, or anything else? What is the significance of the watch if it is no different than everything else around it? Why did you notice it?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580

    Why assume the beach isn't designed? You already assumed the beach isn't designed, and, the watch you found was obviously something made somewhere that you would assume its just lost, or something.
    You put various things into the premise, that are pre-concluded.
     
    #30 Disciple of Jesus, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  11. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,555
    Ratings:
    +3,583
    Because all the things are designed. In your point of view.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    12,900
    Ratings:
    +8,854
    Religion:
    None
    Nah, a rolex seed
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580
    Probably same way you notice anything on a deserted beach...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    12,900
    Ratings:
    +8,854
    Religion:
    None
    Why isn't this in the jokes section?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580
    Heheh, wait, all things aren't designed, except the watch, in your point of view...
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,555
    Ratings:
    +3,583
    It doesn't appear that you understand the analogy you're trying to use.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  17. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    5,929
    Ratings:
    +2,203
    Religion:
    Atheist
    So the watch has no significance and therefore your argument is invalid??? My point is that I would know that a watch was made by a human being because I already have direct evidence of it. You cannot attempt to say that because humans can make watches, therefore the universe has a creator. What do you contract the supposedly created universe with to know it was created? What does an uncreated universe look like?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580
    The direct evidence is the watch, however all you know or figure, is that it was made.
    Then, you notice similar concept, and assume it isn't made. Where is the logic?
     
  19. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2018
    Messages:
    279
    Ratings:
    +60
    Religion:
    Catholic
    Oh, forget the watch. Deliberate misunderstanding is always the sign of defeat in a discussion.

    A naked Amazon indian out hunting birds with a blowpipe is suddenly confronted with a Google driverless car. Does he think it's just another animal?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    19,211
    Ratings:
    +1,580
    The premise is not the other analogy, it just has the same title and similar objects.
     
    #40 Disciple of Jesus, Jul 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
Loading...